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    SubjectRe: C++ pushback
    linux-os (Dick Johnson) wrote:
    > On Mon, 24 Apr 2006, J.A. Magallon wrote:
    >> On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:52:12 +0100, Alan Cox <> wrote:
    >>> On Llu, 2006-04-24 at 15:36 -0600, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
    >>>> C++ in the kernel is a BAD IDEA. C++ code can be written in such a
    >>>> convoluted manner as to be unmaintainable and unreadable.
    >>> So can C.
    >>>> All of the hidden memory allocations from constructor/destructor
    >>>> operatings can and do KILL OS PERFORMANCE.
    >>> This is one area of concern. Just as big a problem for the OS case is
    >>> that the hidden constructors/destructors may fail.
    >> Tell me what is the difference between:

    ...clear readable code...
    >> and
    >> SuperBlock() : s_mount_opt(0), s_resuid(EXT3_DEF_RESUID), s_resgid(EXT3_DEF_RESGID)
    >> {}
    ...double bagger...

    > I'd like to write modules in FORTRAN, myself. Unless you have been
    > writing software since computers were programmed with diode-pins, one
    > tends to think that the first programming language learned is the
    > best. It's generally because they are all bad, and once you learn how
    > to make the defective language do what you want, you tend to identify
    > with it. Identifying with one's captors, the Stockholm syndrome,
    > that's what these languages cause.

    No, I wouldn't touch any of the early languages I learned, the first one
    I liked was ALGOL-60. The software for GE's first CT scanner was
    developed in ALGOL-60. I liked PL/1 when GE was part of the MULTICS
    project, and the whole BCPL->B->C family was fun, although I do like C
    best. GE had an implementation language called I-language which was a
    great system language, but they buried it instead of releasing it. I
    hated FORTRAN, LISP and APL, although I wrote a lot of each, predicted
    that Ada would not be popular, but I like PERL. I wrote text tools in
    TRAC (look that one up ;-) but that's kind of all it did well.

    If you hadn't made this next point I would have...
    > But, a master carpenter has many tools. He chooses the best for each
    > task. When you need to make computer hardware do what you want, in
    > a defined manner, in the particular order in which you require,
    > you use assembly language to generate the exact machine-code required.
    > It is possible to compromise a bit and use a slightly higher-level
    > procedural language called C. One loses control of everything with
    > any other language. Note that before C was invented, all operating
    > system code was written in assembly.

    Hate to tell you, C came about a decade after MULTICS was written in
    PL/1, and I think DEC had VMS out in BLISS before C. C came from B (as
    did IMP68), which came from BCPL.
    > C++ wasn't written for this kind of work. It was written so that a
    > programmer didn't have to care how something was done only that somehow
    > it would get done. Also, as you peel away the onion skins from many
    > C++ graphics libraries, you find inside the core that does the work.
    > It's usually written in C.

    C++ allows more abstraction than C, unfortunately too many people go
    right past past abstraction to obfuscation. With operator overloading
    it's possible to generate write-only code, and programs where "A=B+C"
    does file operations :-( That doesn't belong in an operating system, C
    is the right choice.

    Sorry for the history lesson, you got me thinking about my first languages.

    -bill davidsen (
    "The secret to procrastination is to put things off until the
    last possible moment - but no longer" -me

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