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SubjectRe: LKMM litmus test for Roman Penyaev's rcu-rr
On Wed, Jun 06, 2018 at 11:40:13AM +0200, Roman Penyaev wrote:
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 9:08 PM, Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:
> > On Wed, 30 May 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 09:59:28AM -0500, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> >> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 9:29 AM Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Can't we simplify the whole sequence as basically
> >> > > >
> >> > > > A
> >> > > > if (!B)
> >> > > > D
> >> > > >
> >> > > > for that "not B" case, and just think about that. IOW, let's ignore the
> >> > > > whole "not executed" code.
> >> >
> >> > > Your listing is slightly misleading.
> >> >
> >> > No. You're confused.
> >> >
> >> > You're confused because you're conflating two *entirely* different things.
> >> >
> >> > You're conflating the static source code with the dynamic execution. They
> >> > are NOT THE SAME.
> >>
> >> I am going to go out on a limb and assert that Linus is talking about
> >> what gcc and hardware do, while Alan is talking about what the tool and
> >> memory model do.
> >
> > Indeed. The very first line Linus quoted in his first reply to me
> > (elided above) was:
> >
> > Putting this into herd would be extremely difficult, if not impossible,
> > because it involves analyzing code that was not executed.
> >
> > It should be clear from this that I was talking about herd. Not gcc or
> > real hardware.
> >
> > (After rereading his message a few times, I'm not sure exactly what
> > Linus was talking about...)
> >
> >> In a perfect world, these would be the same, but it
> >> appears that the world might not be perfect just now.
> >>
> >> My current guess is that we need to change the memory-model tool. If
> >> that is the case, here are some possible resolutions:
> >>
> >> 1. Make herd's C-language control dependencies work the same as its
> >> assembly language, so that they extend beyond the end of the
> >> "if" statement. I believe that this would make Roman's case
> >> work, but it could claim that other situations are safe that
> >> are actually problematic due to compiler optimizations.
> >>
> >> The fact that the model currently handles only READ_ONCE()
> >> and WRITE_ONCE() and not unmarked reads and writes make this
> >> option more attractive than it otherwise be, compilers not
> >> being allowed to reorder volatile accesses, but we are likely
> >> to introduce unmarked accesses sometime in the future.
> >
> > Preserving the order of volatile accesses isn't sufficient. The
> > compiler is still allowed to translate
> >
> > r1 = READ_ONCE(x);
> > if (r1) {
> > ...
> > }
> > WRITE_ONCE(y, r2);
> >
> > into something resembling
> >
> > r1 = READ_ONCE(x);
> > WRITE_ONCE(y, r2);
> > if (r1) {
> > ...
> > }
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> According to the standard C99 Annex C "the controlling expression of
> a selection statement (if or switch)" are the sequence points, just
> like a volatile access (READ_ONCE or WRITE_ONCE).
>
> "5.1.2.3 Program execution" states:
> "At certain specified points in the execution sequence called sequence
> points, all side effects of previous evaluations shall be complete
> and no side effects of subsequent evaluations shall have taken place."
>
> So in the example we have 3 sequence points: "READ_ONCE", "if" and
> "WRITE_ONCE", which it seems can't be reordered. Am I mistaken
> interpreting standard? Could you please clarify.

The additional piece of information is the "as if" rule. If the compiler
can prove that the visible effects of running the program will be the
same with and without a given optimization, or "as if" the optimization
had not been applied, then it is allowed to apply the optimization.

The thing that prevents the compiler from using the "as if" rule in your
example is the call to synchronize_rcu(), which could do pretty much
anything, as far as the compiler can tell. We use barrier() in many of
the atomic operations and memory barriers for the same reason.

But what are our options? Here are the ones I can see at the moment:

1. Status quo. This works reasonably well, but we have already
seen that your scenario makes it ask for more synchronization
than necessary. Of course, asking for a bit too much is better
than asking for a bit too little, but I hope that we can do
better than that. (Hey, it seemed like a good idea at the
time!)

This includes the workaround, so status quo is OK for the
near future.

2. Make the C-language notion of control dependencies match the
assembly-language notion. I believe that this would work
well, but it might break when we introduce unmarked accesses.
It might be the case that such breakage only happens when
there is a data race, but I am not certain of this. I can
dream, can't I? ;-)

3. Introduce a new marking/attribute in the .def file that indicates
whether an access is volatile or implies a compiler barrier.
This might allow herd to be more selective about control dependencies,
for example, extending them past the end of "if" statements
containing compiler barriers.

One tricky aspect of this approach is working out what the
compiler can do to the "if" statement. We definitely do not
want to put the complexity of all possible compilers into herd!

4. A similar effect could be achieved by running the litmus test
through a script that does transformations similar to the
workaround.

5. We could use some pragmatic heuristic in herd, but allow
alternative "if" keywords that force control dependencies
to extend past the end of the "if" statement on the one hand
or to be limited to the "if" statement on the other.

6. Your ideas here!


Thanx, Paul

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