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    SubjectRe: [ATTEND] How to act on LKML
    On Tue, 16 Jul 2013, Steven Rostedt wrote:
    > On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 16:49 +0100, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
    >
    > > I have been hacking in several different Open Source communities during
    > > the last few years, including qemu-devel, xen-devel, linux-arm and the
    > > lkml of course.
    > >
    > > The etiquette on the lkml is by far the roughest of them all. It's the
    >
    > It's also the largest of them all.
    >
    > > "bad neighborhood with guns" of the Open Source world. You never know
    > > when you are going to get a bullet, but sooner or later you'll get one.
    >
    > It just seems that way as it is so large. LKML has the most people and
    > will also have the biggest conflict in personalities. It just goes with
    > the territory.

    Even though the LKML is probably the largest Open Source community,
    there are other groups out there of similar size.
    I don't believe that in order to scale up we need to be like this.


    > > I think that it's hurting Linux and in particular it's hurting
    > > attracting new talents.
    >
    > Then why do we have the largest # of developers than any other Open
    > Source project?

    Because Linux is the most widely used kernel, it's everywhere from
    embedded devices to supercomputers.
    Many different companies make a business on Linux and pay people to work
    on it (not FreeBSD or NetBSD). But that's different from what I was
    saying below. Also not all the sub-groups within the kernel development
    circles work this way.

    Or maybe there are just enough brilliant kernel developers that don't
    care.


    > > Not just devs for hire but people passionate
    > > about what they do and eager to become more involved in the project.
    > > I met more than one good ex-Linux hacker that decided to move to do
    > > other things because of this.
    >
    > Honestly, I think LKML over the years has become more tame. Yeah, back
    > in 2005 it was rather harsh, but I don't really see that anymore. I
    > don't see the nasty flame wars going on. Everything seems to be focused
    > more on the technical side, and there's really very little personal
    > attacks out there. Sure, with 15,000 emails a month, you get a few. And
    > Linus will get fed up and burst. But they are really few and far
    > between. And sometimes, a Linus burst gets things moving along much
    > faster than being "professional". You think ARM would have gotten their
    > act together as quick as they did if Linus didn't curse them out and
    > threaten to stop pulling their crap?

    I think there is a way to get the point across without cursing.
    One can be clear and decisive without "bursting". It's easy to mistake
    cursing on the quality of the code for a personal attack.

    When HPA wrote "I find it utterly impossible to be offended by it", that
    might be true for Linus' rants and I also find them humorous sometimes.
    But unfortunately this kind of behavior is by no means limited to Linus
    and it's easy to misunderstand, especially when you don't know the
    person.


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