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    SubjectRe: [PATCH 02/18] xstat: Add a pair of system calls to make extended file stats available [ver #6]
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    On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Linus Torvalds
    <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
    > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Volker Lendecke
    > <Volker.Lendecke@sernet.de> wrote:
    >>
    >> The nice thing about this is also that if this is supposed
    >> to be fully usable for Windows clients, the birthtime needs
    >> to be changeable. That's what NTFS semantics gives you, thus
    >> Windows clients tend to require it.
    >
    > Ok. So it's not really a creation date, exactly the same way ctime
    > isn't at all a creation date.
    >
    > And maybe that actually hints at a better solution: maybe a better
    > model is to create a new per-thread flag that says "do ctime updates
    > the way windows does them".
    >
    > So instead of adding another "btime" - which isn't actually what even
    > windows does - just admit that the _real_ issue is that Unix and
    > Windows semantics are different for the pre-existing "ctime".
    >
    > The fact is, windows has "access time", "modification time" and
    > "creation time" _exactly_ like UNIX. It's just that the ctime has
    > slightly different semantics in windows vs unix. So quite frankly,
    > it's totally insane to introduce a "birthtime", when that isn't even
    > what windows wants, just because people cannot face the actual real
    > difference.
    >
    > Tell me why we shouldn't just do this right?
    >
    >                Linus

    I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but I believe NTFS has a
    number of timestamps, not just 3.

    This blog post references 8 in the left hand column.

    The 4 standard (most common) ones are:

    File last access
    File last modified
    File created
    MFT last modified

    My understanding is that "MFT last modified" has semantics very
    similar to Linux ctime.

    But there is not a generic equivalent to NTFS created.

    Thus if trying to have the Linux kernel match NTFS semantics for the
    benefit of Samba is the goal, it seems a new field should be preferred
    instead of having linux ctime try to do different jobs.

    Greg
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