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    SubjectRe: [ck] Re: Linus 2.6.23-rc1

    On Sat, 28 Jul 2007, jos poortvliet wrote:
    > Your point here seems to be: this is how it went, and it was right. Ok, got
    > that.

    But I wanted to bring out more than what you make sound like "that's what
    happened, deal with it". I tried to explain _why_ the choices that were
    made were in fact made.

    And it's a (I think) important thing for people to be aware of. The fact
    is, "personality" and "work with the other developers" is a big issue.

    You cannot just go off and do your own thing in your private world, and
    then expect it to be accepted without any discussion or other people
    showing up and doing alternate things. That's _especially_ true in an area
    that has a respected and working maintainer.

    > Yet, Con walked away (and not just over SD). Seeing Con go, I wonder
    > how many did leave without this splash.

    We've had people go with a splash before. Quite frankly, the current
    scheduler situation looks very much like the CML2 situation. Anybody
    remember that? The developer there also got rejected, the improvement was
    made differently (and much more in line with existing practices and
    maintainership), and life went on. Eric Raymond, however, left with a

    It's not common, but it's not unheard of. Anybody who thinks that
    developers don't have huge egos probably haven't ever met a software
    engineer. And I suspect kernel people have bigger egos than most. No
    wonder there are clashes every once in a while - it's a wonder there
    aren't _more_ of them.

    > How and why? And is it due to a deeper problem?

    Well, one part of it is that the way to make changes in the kernel
    community is to do them incrementally.

    Small and incremental improvements are much easier to merge. If you go off
    and rewrite a subsystem, you shouldn't expect it to get merged, at least
    not unless it can live side-by-side with the old one (the new firewire
    stack is an example of that, and most filesystems are this way too). And
    the closer to some central part you get, the harder that gets.

    So the *bulk* of the kernel stuff can be handled either incrementally, or
    side-by-side, and as a result, you actually seldom see issues like this.
    The kernel is extremely modular, and a large reason for that is exactly to
    avoid couplings.

    Some (very few) things cannot be done incrementally. That's why I bring
    up CML2 as a fairly good example of this having happened before. Some
    things require flag-days. But you should pretty much *assume* that if
    there is a flag-day, and if there is a maintainer, the maintainer has to
    be involved.

    Does "maintainership" give infinite powers? No. I'll take patches that
    bypass maintainers, but there needs to be some reason for them (ie in some
    sense the maintainer needs to have done a bad job, or the patch just needs
    to be trivial enough - or it cuts across maintainership areas - that it's
    not even _worth_ going through all maintainers).

    So maintainers aren't "everything". But they are important. You can't just
    ignore them and go do your own thing, and then expect it to be merged.

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      Last update: 2007-07-28 22:33    [W:0.047 / U:50.792 seconds]
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