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SubjectRe: Hibernation considerations
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:

> On Tuesday, 17 July 2007 22:34, wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2007, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 17 July 2007 20:32, Alan Stern wrote:
>>>> I'm still not entirely clear on how "suspend-to-both" ought to be
>>>> handled. Presumably it will start off as a normal hibernation. But
>>>> instead of shutting down, wouldn't the kexec'd kernel return to the
>>>> original kernel?
>>> No, I think the image-saving kernel should suspend. Then, on resume the
>>> platform will go back to it and it will jump back to the hibernated kernel.
>>>> After all, the original kernel knows about all the devices and can put them
>>>> into a low-power state, while the kexec'd kernel might not have sufficient
>>>> information.
>>> That's correct, but ...
>>>> But what about the freezer? The original reason for using kexec was to
>>>> avoid the need for the freezer. With no freezer, while the original
>>>> kernel is busy powering down its devices, user tasks will be free to
>>>> carry out I/O -- which will make the memory snapshot inconsistent with
>>>> the on-disk data structures.
>>> ... we can't return to the hibernated kernel unless we are going to cancel the
>>> hibernation.
>> this is where we disagree.
>> why not? if all that the hibernated kernel does is to suspend-to-ram and
>> makes no changes to disks or TCP connections anything that it does do
>> would be lost if power were to fail and you instead did a restore from
>> disk.
> How do you guarantee that no tasks are scheduled when you get back to the
> hibernated kernel?

just don't schedule any userspace tasks. all you need to do is to execute
the ACPI sleep functions. you normally do that after stopping userspace

>> there is only a problem if something takes place that would prevent the
>> restore-from-disk from working. if this is done in a non-ACPI way that
>> will work across a power cycle you don't have to worry about the hardware
>> state not matching anyway.
>>> That's why I think that for the suspend-to-both the image-saving kernel will
>>> need to support the same set of devices as the hibernated kernel.
>> suspend-to-both doesn't really make sense if the suspend-to-disk portion
>> is useing the ACPI S4 mode.
> Well, not exactly. If your battery runs out of power while you're suspended,
> but you have the image saved, it's still better to restore from the image, even
> if something may not work correctly after the restore, than to risk a loss of
> data.

if things don't work correctly you are still risking the loss of data, the
user just doesn't know it.

>> if you don't run out of power you will restore-from-ram
>> if you do run out of power the restore-from-disk won't work either becouse
>> devices are not in the right ACPI states.
> See above.
> Greetings,
> Rafael
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