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SubjectRe: pcmcia ioctl removal
Willy Tarreau wrote:
> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 05:16:13AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 1 May 2007, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> pcmcia-delete-obsolete-pcmcia_ioctl-feature.patch
>>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dominik is busy. Will probably re-review and send these direct to Linus.
>>>>
>>> The patch above is the removal of cardmgr support. While I'd love
>>> to see this cruft gone it definitively needs maintainer judgement on
>>> whether they time has come that no one relies on cardmgr anymore.
>>>
>> since i was the one who submitted the original patch to remove that
>> stuff, let me make an observation.
>>
>> when i submitted a patch to remove, for instance, the traffic shaper
>> since it's clearly obsolete, i was told -- in no uncertain terms --
>> that that couldn't be done since there had been no warning about its
>> impending removal.
>>
>> fair enough, i can accept that.
>>
>> on the other hand, the features removal file contains the following:
>>
>> ...
>> What: PCMCIA control ioctl (needed for pcmcia-cs [cardmgr, cardctl])
>> When: November 2005
>> ...
>>
>> in other words, the PCMCIA ioctl feature *has* been listed as obsolete
>> for quite some time, and is already a *year and a half* overdue for
>> removal.
>>
>> in short, it's annoying to take the position that stuff can't be
>> deleted without warning, then turn around and be reluctant to remove
>> stuff for which *more than ample warning* has already been given.
>> doing that just makes a joke of the features removal file, and makes
>> you wonder what its purpose is in the first place.
>>
>> a little consistency would be nice here, don't you think?
>>
>
> No, it just shows how useless this file is. What is needed is a big
> warning during usage, not a file that nobody reads. Facts are :
>
> - 90% of people here do not even know that this file exists
> - 80% of the people who know about it do not consult it on a regular basis
> - 80% of those who consult it on a regular basis are not concerned
> - 75% of statistics are invented
>
> => only 20% of 20% of 10% of those who read LKML know that one feature
> they are concerned about will soon be removed = 0.4% of LKML readers.
>
> If you put a warning in kernel messages (as I've seen for a long time
> about tcpdump using obsolete AF_PACKET), close to 100% of the users
> of the obsolete code who are likely to change their kernels will notice
> it.
>
>

Hmm ? There is already a fat warning in dmesg for a long time now.


snip

...

pcmcia: Detected deprecated PCMCIA ioctl usage from process: discover.
pcmcia: This interface will soon be removed from the kernel; please
expect breakage unless you upgrade to new tools.
pcmcia: see
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/pcmcia/pcmcia.html for details.

...


> I'm sorry for your patch which may get delayed a lot. You would spend
> fewer time stuffing warnings in areas affected by scheduled removal.
>
> BTW, I'm not even against the end of cardmgr support, it's just that
> I don't know what the alternative is, and I suspect that many users
> do not either. A big warning would have brought them to google who
> would have provided them with suggestions for alternatives.
>
> Willy
>
>
>

Regards,

Gabriel

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