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    SubjectRe: recommended mail clients [was] [PATCH] ati-agp suspend/resume support (try 2)
    Peter Williams wrote:

    > Michael Clark wrote:
    >
    >> Lee Revell wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 2005-12-26 at 20:03 +0000, Alistair John Strachan wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> On Monday 26 December 2005 17:54, Lee Revell wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Mon, 2005-12-26 at 15:35 +0000, Alistair John Strachan wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> [snip]
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>>> I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I
    >>>>>>> ssh into
    >>>>>>> my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine
    >>>>>>> and it
    >>>>>>> handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu
    >>>>>>> "Normal"
    >>>>>>> may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files
    >>>>>>> "as-is").
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>
    >> This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right
    >> thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the
    >> inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch - at
    >> least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.
    >>
    >>
    >>>>>> Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a
    >>>>>> long time.
    >>>>>> It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes
    >>>>>> are left
    >>>>>> untouched.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has
    >>>>> this
    >>>>> problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline
    >>>>> patches and
    >>>>> even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a
    >>>>> serious
    >>>>> usability/UI issue.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to
    >>>>> SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla
    >>>>> developers
    >>>>> at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far)
    >>>>> and
    >>>>> hopefully this will light a fire under someone.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps
    >>>> AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never
    >>>> understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for
    >>>> composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>
    >> Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in
    >> 'Preformat' mode.
    >>
    >>
    >>>> Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece
    >>>> of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express
    >>>> (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).
    >>>>
    >>>> It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but
    >>>> convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is
    >>>> probably much harder.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into
    >>> "Preformat"
    >>> mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >> Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before
    >> pasting patches into Thunderbird.
    >
    >
    > In my thunderbird, the "Paste Without Formatting" mode seems to be
    > continually grayed out (i.e. unavailable). I couldn't find anything
    > in the preferences that altered this situation. What's the secret?
    >
    I'm selecting 'Preformat' in the email compose window and using regular
    X Paste (middle button) - and it works for me (I can save the resulting
    message to a .eml and diff it against the patch and it is perfect).
    Perhaps the Debian/Sid Thunderbird has some patch? Don't know.

    Note pasting from gnome terminal does not work (as it doesn't retain
    tabs) nor does xclip work with Thunderbird for some reason. I use a
    selection in emacs and paste that.

    ~mc
    ~mc
    -
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