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    SubjectRe: A modest proposal -- We need a patch penguin


    On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Stuart Young wrote:
    > Perhaps what we need is a patch maintenance system? Now I'm not talking
    > CVS, I'm talking about something that is, in reality, pretty simple.
    > Something that does the following:

    Ah, the old Patch Management Problem. It's like an old friend (or a bad
    rash).

    AFAIK, something like this was first proposed here:

    http://lists.insecure.org/linux-kernel/2000/Sep/2468.html

    At that time, we were in the midst of the 2.4.0-test? series. Many things
    were unstable and/or volatile. Linus was receiving an ungodly number of
    patches, and releasing a new -pre patch about every day.

    One of the main problems was that many patches simply didn't apply. What
    a patch was diffed against would become obsolete so quickly, that many
    patches were rendered useless by the time they were even read. And, there
    was the same limitation concerning Linus's ability and desire to reply to
    every single email.

    The concept is very simple and described well in the email. So, I will not
    expound on it here. Unfortunately, the project was dropped internally.

    The problem has come up a few times in the last few months. Several people
    have expressed interest in having something like it. Some already do.
    Several people have said they were working on something like it.
    Unfortunately, I think most of those people got distracted with their
    other full-time jobs or more intersting work.

    I brought the topic up here at OSDL a few months ago for use both
    internally and externally. Also, with the notion of integrating our STP
    (Scalable Test Platform). We've had several discussions about it, what it
    would look like, and how it would work. We've also had the chance to talk
    with a few of the other kernel maintainers in the area (face-to-face
    meetings really do a long way).

    The conclusions were this:

    Is it necessary? No.
    Could it be useful? Yes.
    Would people use it? Probably.
    Would everyone use it? No.
    Would Linus use it? Probably Not.


    Which is all pretty obvious. You can't please everyone.

    We're going to develop a system internally and are willing to host a
    system for the rest of the world to use. We're not looking to design a
    be-all, end-all solution. Basically, just a system that can automate
    things like applying patches and compiling.

    If a patch succeeds, it then goes to the maintainer to which it was sent.
    The maintainer can then accept or reject the patch. Either with
    explanation or not. The submitter can then track what patches were
    accepted.

    Submitted patches can also go to a public mailing list and/or exported via
    a public (read: web) interface. Of course, there should be ways to
    override the publicity for OOB patches and sensitive items.

    Writing the software is really not that difficult. But, we want something
    that people like and can use, as well as modular and extensible. So, we're
    aiming for simplicity and modularity.

    So, the obvious question is 'So, where is it at now?'. Not much further
    than the conceptualizing stage. The two people actually writing the
    software are a bit over-subscribed ATM, though we do have some pretty
    pictures.

    I'm currently in the waiting queue for a Sourceforge project. Once that is
    live, there will be a mailing list to which the discussion can be moved
    and kept alive. Anyone and everyone interested is welcome to submit their
    ideas and suggestions. Via the SF project, we will submit our designs and
    post our progress on the system.

    If you prefer a more private forum, feel free to email me and/or the Man
    with the Plan: Nathan Dabney at smurf@osdl.org.

    -pat




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