[lkml]   [2001]   [Sep]   [26]   [last100]   RSS Feed
Views: [wrap][no wrap]   [headers]  [forward] 
Messages in this thread
SubjectRe: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?
dear Matti Aarnio

I was aware of some of the problems with email<->news and thought it iky.
so its interesting to see the innards of the reason why. what I wanted was a
one way sort of thing I did not want to post just read.

I am sure that many people would like to see the mailing list in newsgroup
form (again I emphasize reading not writing) so maybe creating a central
news server for ISP's would be a good idea, keeping the server for just
ISP's to mirror and only be one way, I think would save some bandwidth maybe

again I don't really have a place to point the NTL people
(and I suspect there is no real official one but any decent one way, UK
based, server would do for me)


john jones

> From: Matti Aarnio <>
> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:35:22 +0300
> To: jones <>
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ?
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 07:40:33PM +0100, jones wrote:
>> dear all
>> I would like to know which kind people turn the mailing list into a
>> newsgroup ?
> There are several Issues with this.
> - News system uses Message-ID header content to detect when
> a message has already gone thru the system, and when not.
> That is, the Message-ID MUST BE UNIQUE for the message to
> be stored into the message spool.
> - User posting to multiple lists (e.g. linux-kernel, linux-net
> for an example pair) MAY get sent out in single SMTP transfer
> all the way to ( except when the user's system
> uses braindead systems splitting things in transfer - like is
> the habit of qmail ...). The message WILL get split into
> multiple deliveries when it goes via Majordomo to each separate
> destination list. Both messages have SAME Message-ID value.
> (The Message-ID is supposed to be generated by the posting
> user client.)
> - Having any arbitrary email->news gateway now trying to feed
> those two separate messages to news will result in random
> success/failure order (depending of various latencies).
> - Things are worse, there are lots of these gw:s around to feed
> lists to news. Those same news servers also often leak the groups
> into the global net, and may poison your local message-id database,
> and hence the local copy feed to spool might fail.
> ( Again timing and propagation delays affect the thing.. )
> - Things get even more worse; some want to have bi-directional
> gateway in between the email and the news. Those are full
> nightmares in broad daylight...
> It is not trivial.
> We ( ) don't recommend making bidirectional
> gateways -- one mistake there, and the system causes duplication of
> messages at the list it is linked with. When we detect that mistake,
> the usual court-martial is swift, and feed from VGER to the GW is
> removed instantly.
> I think these loop problems were one of the reasons why one of us
> (DaveM) strongly opposes list<->news gateways. I am somewhat less
> in opposition, and my thinking is that the only way we can have
> reliable (hah!) list<->news gw is by running it centralized at VGER.
> Modern VGER has muscle for it, but don't expect it to happen any
> time soon.
> There were other problems too -- completely clueless people asking
> clueless questions at linux-kernel group. Where cluefull place
> for most of those would have been linux-newbie ...
> We try to keep some decent Signal to Noise ratio here.
> Using a email->news gw script, and keeping the destination group
> in local area (local spool) will work usually. Creating brand new
> Message-ID:s at email->news injection in form which consists of
> e.g. local list-specific prefix catenated with original message-id
> string.
> I will attempt to schedule posting this text into vger's web for
> the curious, plus add sample email->news injector doing this
> message-id conversion.
>> this would enable me to read at my leisure and not have my inbox overflow.
>> I am connected to NTL (UK) the same as I believe Mr. A Cox, but I can not
>> find a working newsgroup the NTL administrator has asked me for details and
>> I am afraid I don't know (hence this mail).
>> can someone give me some advice ?
>> regards
>> john jones
>> p.s. I am not subscribed to the list so can you CC me or the list whichever
>> is appropriate
>> p.p.s. I am interested in other lists such as linux-mips and not just the
>> core linux M.L.
> /Matti Aarnio

To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to
More majordomo info at
Please read the FAQ at

 \ /
  Last update: 2005-03-22 13:03    [W:0.109 / U:2.288 seconds]
©2003-2020 Jasper Spaans|hosted at Digital Ocean and TransIP|Read the blog|Advertise on this site