Messages in this thread |  | | Date | Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:58:27 +0100 | Subject | Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ? | From | jones <> |
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dear Matti Aarnio
I was aware of some of the problems with email<->news and thought it iky. so its interesting to see the innards of the reason why. what I wanted was a one way sort of thing I did not want to post just read.
I am sure that many people would like to see the mailing list in newsgroup form (again I emphasize reading not writing) so maybe creating a central news server for ISP's would be a good idea, keeping the server for just ISP's to mirror and only be one way, I think would save some bandwidth maybe ?
again I don't really have a place to point the NTL people (and I suspect there is no real official one but any decent one way, UK based, server would do for me)
regards
john jones
> From: Matti Aarnio <matti.aarnio@zmailer.org> > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:35:22 +0300 > To: jones <little.jones.family@ntlworld.com> > Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org > Subject: Re: newsgroup of all mailing lists ? > > On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 07:40:33PM +0100, jones wrote: >> dear all >> >> I would like to know which kind people turn the mailing list into a >> newsgroup ? > > There are several Issues with this. > > - News system uses Message-ID header content to detect when > a message has already gone thru the system, and when not. > That is, the Message-ID MUST BE UNIQUE for the message to > be stored into the message spool. > > - User posting to multiple lists (e.g. linux-kernel, linux-net > for an example pair) MAY get sent out in single SMTP transfer > all the way to vger.kernel.org ( except when the user's system > uses braindead systems splitting things in transfer - like is > the habit of qmail ...). The message WILL get split into > multiple deliveries when it goes via Majordomo to each separate > destination list. Both messages have SAME Message-ID value. > (The Message-ID is supposed to be generated by the posting > user client.) > > - Having any arbitrary email->news gateway now trying to feed > those two separate messages to news will result in random > success/failure order (depending of various latencies). > > - Things are worse, there are lots of these gw:s around to feed > lists to news. Those same news servers also often leak the groups > into the global net, and may poison your local message-id database, > and hence the local copy feed to spool might fail. > ( Again timing and propagation delays affect the thing.. ) > > - Things get even more worse; some want to have bi-directional > gateway in between the email and the news. Those are full > nightmares in broad daylight... > > > It is not trivial. > > We ( postmaster@vger.kernel.org ) don't recommend making bidirectional > gateways -- one mistake there, and the system causes duplication of > messages at the list it is linked with. When we detect that mistake, > the usual court-martial is swift, and feed from VGER to the GW is > removed instantly. > > I think these loop problems were one of the reasons why one of us > (DaveM) strongly opposes list<->news gateways. I am somewhat less > in opposition, and my thinking is that the only way we can have > reliable (hah!) list<->news gw is by running it centralized at VGER. > Modern VGER has muscle for it, but don't expect it to happen any > time soon. > > There were other problems too -- completely clueless people asking > clueless questions at linux-kernel group. Where cluefull place > for most of those would have been linux-newbie ... > > We try to keep some decent Signal to Noise ratio here. > > > Using a email->news gw script, and keeping the destination group > in local area (local spool) will work usually. Creating brand new > Message-ID:s at email->news injection in form which consists of > e.g. local list-specific prefix catenated with original message-id > string. > > > I will attempt to schedule posting this text into vger's web for > the curious, plus add sample email->news injector doing this > message-id conversion. > > >> this would enable me to read at my leisure and not have my inbox overflow. >> I am connected to NTL (UK) the same as I believe Mr. A Cox, but I can not >> find a working newsgroup the NTL administrator has asked me for details and >> I am afraid I don't know (hence this mail). >> >> can someone give me some advice ? >> >> regards >> >> john jones >> >> p.s. I am not subscribed to the list so can you CC me or the list whichever >> is appropriate >> >> p.p.s. I am interested in other lists such as linux-mips and not just the >> core linux M.L. > > > /Matti Aarnio
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