Messages in this thread |  | | Date | Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:53:17 -0500 (CDT) | From | Oliver Xymoron <> | Subject | Re: Availability of kdb |
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[reposted for the benefit of anyone wondering what Linus was replying to]
On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Oliver Xymoron wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > I use revision control at work. We use CVS on steroids - CVS with a lo tof > > the extensions available, and with a "mad scientists helper" program > > called "igor". > [...] > > And with a chip that _includes_ a compiler, we have some debuggers that I > > don't think exist anywhere else on the planet. Which turns out very useful > > when the first version of the silicon doesn't actually act the way we > > thought it would ;) > > I figured as much on both counts, actually - I was mostly razzing you. > > > So I've seen both. And I still don't think they make for better code. They > > sometimes make for more expedient release schedules. Which is not the same > > thing at all. > > I think the only one who's argued from the release schedule POV is Jeff > Merkey. The rest are arguing that debuggers are sometimes useful tools[1]. > > Tools are tools. They don't make better code. They make better code easier > if used properly. Companies are using drills and lathes and table saws and > power sanders to produce furniture that doesn't compare to antiques made > with hand tools[2]. Does this mean we should make everything by hand? No, > it just means we need to be focused on craftsmanship rather than cost. > I think the current development culture already has that focus. > > Fact is, the kernel debugging tools are, just like drivers, best > maintained with the kernel proper. > > Either DM or AV referred to K&P's _Practice of Programming_ (p118) in > defense of the avoiding debugger argument. If you have it handy, give that > chapter a read. They devote pretty much their entire chapter on debugging > to the printf school and most of the book lines up with your code quality > philosophy but they still conclude that "a debugger can be of enormous > value, however, and you should certainly include one in your debugging > toolkit.." > > [1] Compare TM's core debuggers to the usefulness of something like IKD > for early work on a new port. > > [2] Note that you're only looking at the antiques that were built well > enough to be around for comparison. > > -- > "Love the dolphins," she advised him. "Write by W.A.S.T.E.." > >
-- "Love the dolphins," she advised him. "Write by W.A.S.T.E.."
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