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SubjectRe: Availability of kdb
On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 00:23:43 -0700, "J. Dow" <>

>From: "Stephen E. Clark" <>
>> Linus Torvalds wrote:
>> >
>> > On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Oliver Xymoron wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Tools are tools. They don't make better code. They make better code easier
>> > > if used properly.
>> >
>> > I think you missed the point of my original reply completely.
>> >
>> > The _technical_ side of the tool in question is completely secondary.
>> >
>> > The social engineering side is very real, and immediate.
>> ...
>> > Linus
>> >
>> Then why don't we get rid of the compilers and assemblers and go back to
>> the old way of doing it
>> all - coding on the bare metal. Believe it or not at one time it was
>> done this way. Imagine where
>> we would be if everyone had said lets not invent tools to make ourselves
>> more productive.
>> My $.02
>> Steve Clark
>And for my severely depreciated $0.02 I am becoming concerned
>that these guys are more concerned about some macho ideal of
>generating programs while half crippled than about having things
>work properly and maintainably no matter what gets in the way.
>Art has flaws in it that have been painted over, often two or three
>times. I grew up with a giant painting of Beethoven along side the
>dinner table. It had been presented to my step-grandfather by
>the Leipzig Symphony Orchestra. It captured the brooding artist
>wonderfully. And in humid weather you could see his third hand,
>the one the artist didn't like and painted over.
>For all the zen meditation on code I begin to wonder how many of
>the fixes really are fixes or painted over features that didn't quite
>work out. It worries me no small bit.
><sigh> and here I thought macho didnt' fit well with people who
>used their brains. I see it is as alive and well here as on the
>streets of East LA.

How can anyone judge that a debugger was used in development of a
patch, along with system understanding, Linux knowledge, etc? The
changed code stands along with no provenance. If it reflects a shallow
understanding, it will be rejected. If it is a deep elegant fix, that
will stand on its merits.

john alvord
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