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SubjectRe: [Semi-OT,important] ORBS globally blocks users of these lists
[ This is my one and only post on this subject for this round of ORBS
bickering. It's way offtopic for this mailing list, and it's the call of
the vger folks as to how this list operates. I might disagree with some
of their choices (although I do agree with the usage of ORBS), but it's
not my call, it's theirs. Don't like it? Start your own damn kernel
list. ]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2000, Henning P . Schmiedehausen wrote:
> This is the problem. Most people just drop the generic "lets use ORBS"
> config into their mailers and don't judge.

Then people are getting what they deserve. Any time you employ some
external source for filtering your email, you'd better take the time to
figure out how to use it correctly. This applies to any of the current
RBL-style blacklists.

> [snip dynamic dialup situation]

Your description is accurate, except that you'll still have problems
communicating, if you're the "Linux Wizard". The MAPS DUL is a listing of
dynamic dialup pools based on information gleaned from various providers
and research, and blacklists people in the situation you described.

> => Using ORBS has damaged your communication.

No, not being aware of some of the limitations of running a mail server
from a dialup link has damaged your communication.

> This scenario is the main reason I don't use ORBS for the mailers I
> administrate.

You administrate a lot of SMTP servers on non-static links?

> In an age where IP address reuse and masquerading is
> done in big numbers, it is simply unfair to block on addresses. You
> can and you will hit the wrong people.

You're not giving your SMTP servers static addresses? I find this either
hard to believe, or unquestionably silly.

> They damage the other > 9500 regular dialup users because some of the
> dialup-addresses were put into ORBS. And the blame is put on the ISP

You're right, the blame is being mislaid.

It should be on that 1% of the population which is ruining it for the
others, not on the ISP or ORBS.

> Personally I'm with George Bonser. The ORBS people and the people who
> support them are IMHO doing damage to the net because they haven't
> thought about all possible scenarios.

Actually, I've thought about it a long time, and have been using and
defending ORBS almost since it's inception. I've had to email Alan several
times due to confusion over what people were stating about ORBS and what
ORBS actually did, to ensure that I had correct and complete information.
Believe me, with the arguments that ensue regarding it (it seems like
people are having this conversation on damn near every mailing list I'm on
now), I've thought about it.

Have you?

--
Edward S. Marshall <emarshal@logic.net> http://www.xnet.com/~emarshal/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. ]


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