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SubjectRe: 2.1.118 Tons of oopes
Terry L. Ridder writes:
> Richard Gooch wrote:
> >
> > David S. Miller writes:
> > >
> > > you talk too much and don't spend enough time listening to what people
> > > are saying to you...
> >
> > Look, I am entitled to think differently than you. I've been
> > listening. It seems to me people haven't listened to my points.
> >
> > What I don't understand is *why* this flush() method is termed
> > mandatory (hence the intentional source breakage), and yet in *every*
> > driver in the 2.1.118 patch it is set to NULL.
> Because Linus said so.

That's an inadequate response.

> It is sort of like when a teenager asks their parent for permission
> to do something, and the parent says "No". The teenager asks why not?
> The answer is "Because I said so."

Such an attitude is rude, arrogant and impatient. It deserves only
contempt. To not give a logical reason when saying "no" is stupid as
well as being wrong.

> > So what is the difference between breaking all source and then
> > inserting NULLs, or appending the new method and taking advantage of
> > automatic structure initialisation. The only difference I've seen is
> > that one approach breaks things and requires lots of effort.
> >
> > Again, if there is some other hidden assumption going on here, I'd
> > like to know. But *nobody* has explained how the breakage has helped
> > anything.
> Does it necessarily have to have a definite purpose?

Yes. If you break something, you should justify why. People are
entitled to see what the reasoning is and to challenge that reasoning
if they see it as flawed.

> Hold on here comes the conspiracy theories. The Linux version of
> the X-Files. Brought to you by the Bud Lite Penguin.
> > It would have been a different matter is a significant proportion of
> > drivers were modified by the patch to now have real flush()
> > methods. But that isn't the case: they're all set to NULL. The only
> > conclusion I can make from this is that flush() is optional for almost
> > every driver.
> >
> > No, David, it's not a case of me not listening. It's a case of people
> > not explaining things clearly. If I'm wrong in flush() being optional,
> > then there is some hidden assumption.
> >
> > Maybe the inner circle *does* know some deep dark secret, but *I*
> > don't know it and it hasn't been made public. In light of this, my
> > questions are entirely reasonable. Instead of flaming me for pursuing
> > this, why not come forth with some clearer explanations?

Don't be stupid. I'm not talking about conspiracies. I'm saying that
the inner circle do no communicate effectively with others. Things
that may seem obvious to them are not necessarily obvious to other
bright hackers who aren't in "the club".

The kernel gurus are irritating an increasing number of people by not
communicating effectively and behaving in an arrogant and
condescending way. If one of them had simply taken the time to clearly
explain their reasoning and showing how they thought my reasoning was
flawed, this thread would have been much shorter.

But no, it's easier to flame, call someone names and say "I'm right
because I'm a kernel guru and you're wrong because you're not". It
shows arrogance, impatience and lack of good judgement.

Being a good kernel hacker hasn't improved the people skills of
some. I always make a point of explaining things when somebody asks me
questions, no matter how obvious I think the answer is. If someone
doesn't get what I'm saying, my approach is to try to explain it a
different way, not to assume that the person is ignorant and/or

If someone doesn't get your point, it probably means that you haven't
explained yourself well, not that they are stupid. There are people on
this list who could learn a little patience and tolerance.



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