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From devnull@lkml.org Sat Apr 27 05:13:59 2024 Received: from entropy.muc.muohio.edu (entropy.muc.muohio.edu [134.53.213.10]) by herbie.ucs.indiana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10646 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:41:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from vger.rutgers.edu (root@vger.rutgers.edu [128.6.190.2]) by entropy.muc.muohio.edu (8.8.8/Not-Vulnerable) with ESMTP id PAA17600; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:37:10 -0400 Received: by vger.rutgers.edu id <154662-25263>; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:35:56 -0400 Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com ([192.86.155.100]:36180 "EHLO inet16.us.oracle.com" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE[2]") by vger.rutgers.edu with ESMTP id <154330-25263>; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:37:17 -0400 Received: from mailsun3 (mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.135]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA16984; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailsun3 (SMI-8.6/37.9) id KAA01028; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:10:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199808241710.KAA01028@mailsun3> Date: 24 Aug 98 10:06:21 -0700 From: "WCOEKAER.US.ORACLE.COM" To: hpa@transmeta.com Subject: Re: Virtual Machines, JVM in kernel, hot-swapped kernel Cc: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:UNX03.US.ORACLE.COM:owner-linux-kernel-outgoing@vger.rutgers.edu's message of 24-Aug-98 04:26 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_ORCL_101638019_0_0" X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu Sender: owner-linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu Precedence: bulk X-Loop: majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu --=_ORCL_101638019_0_0 Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit Content-Type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A VM in the kernel, or a system level VM to share objects and what not is good in an environment where you know tons of people are running the same code. Otherwise it would just trash your environment. For companies running all their apps in java that would be good, for a generic system where you have random users I don't see why you would go through all the trouble. if you really want to tightly integrate a vm and have sharing of objects, one way could be to have some sort of a generic cache for a VM, and then have session level or userlevel spaces where you store local stuff, and you would do your GC in on the userspace and not on the shared object cache (just use LRU there). Again, this would really work well in the specific type of usage... and like hpa said, then there is the security problem :) which would be a REAL mess in such a case, you will have to play around with, who can invoke this object, how do you keep track of that and all... you really want to go there ? Wim. The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation. --=_ORCL_101638019_0_0 Content-Type:message/rfc822 Date: 24 Aug 98 04:26:46 From:hpa@transmeta.com (H. Peter Anvin) To:linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu Subject:Re: Virtual Machines, JVM in kernel, hot-swapped kernel Reply-to:UNX03.US.ORACLE.COM:hpa@transmeta.com Return-Path: Received:from mailsun2.us.oracle.com by mailsun3 with SMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id EAA16480; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 04:26:13 -0700 Received:from inet16.us.oracle.com by mailsun2.us.oracle.com with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.8) id EAA10829; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 04:26:12 -0700 Received:from listserv.funet.fi (listserv.funet.fi [128.214.248.27]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA25044 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 04:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received:from vger.rutgers.edu ([128.6.190.2]:25105 "EHLO vger.rutgers.edu" ident: "TIMEDOUT") by listserv.funet.fi with ESMTP id <8571-6331>; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:14:14 +0300 Received:by vger.rutgers.edu id <154237-25263>; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:37:47 -0400 Received:from neon-best.transmeta.com ([206.184.214.10]:8337 "EHLO neon.transmeta.com" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE[2]") by vger.rutgers.edu with ESMTP id <154611-25263>; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:32:43 -0400 Received:from deepthought.transmeta.com (mailhost.transmeta.com [10.1.1.15]) by neon.transmeta.com (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA14570 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 04:02:48 -0700 Received:from palladium.transmeta.com (bin@palladium.transmeta.com [10.1.1.46]) by deepthought.transmeta.com (8.8.8+spamcan/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA25992 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 04:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received:(from bin@localhost) by palladium.transmeta.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA09166 for linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 04:05:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning:palladium.transmeta.com: bin set sender to news@transmeta.com using -f Organization:Transmeta Corporation, Santa Clara CA Message-ID:<6rrhee$8u9$1@palladium.transmeta.com> References:<3.0.3.32.19980220221907.006d6420@mail.soundfound.com> <19980822152913.18494@lucifer.guardian.no> Disclaimer:Not speaking for Transmeta in any way, shape, or form. Copyright:Copyright 1998 H. Peter Anvin - All Rights Reserved X-Orcpt:rfc822;linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu Sender:owner-linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu Precedence: bulk X-Loop:majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu X-MIME-Autoconverted:from 8bit to quoted-printable by inet16.us.oracle.com id EAA25044 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type:text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding:quoted-printable Followup to: <19980822152913.18494@lucifer.guardian.no> By author: Alexander Kjeldaas In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel > > You don't want a VM in the kernel, but you might want a system level > VM - a single VM used by all java-programs what will do caching and > optimalization etc. Other than that, it is interesting to see if > there are any new services needed by a VM that the kernel should > provide. I know of one such service: user-level exceptions. Being > able to handle a memory protection exception without the > user->kernel->user context switches makes certain GC/VM-tricks much > less expensive. > Hmm... I don't know if you can do that and still maintain OS security; anyone remember the "sliding password" security hole? -hpa -- PGP: 2047/2A960705 BA 03 D3 2C 14 A8 A8 BD 1E DF FE 69 EE 35 BD 74 See http://www.zytor.com/~hpa/ for web page and full PGP public key I am Bah=E1'=ED -- ask me about it or see http://www.bahai.org/ "To love another person is to see the face of God." -- Les Mis=E9rables - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu Please read the FAQ at http://www.altern.org/andrebalsa/doc/lkml-faq.html --=_ORCL_101638019_0_0-- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu Please read the FAQ at http://www.altern.org/andrebalsa/doc/lkml-faq.html