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    SubjectRe: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML


    ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Sarah Sharp" <sarah.a.sharp@linux.intel.com>
    > To: "CAI Qian" <caiqian@redhat.com>
    > Cc: "Trond Myklebust" <Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com>, "Ric Wheeler" <ricwheeler@gmail.com>, "David Lang"
    > <david@lang.hm>, ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, "Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
    > "Darren Hart" <dvhart@linux.intel.com>, "Ingo Molnar" <mingo@kernel.org>, "Olivier Galibert" <galibert@pobox.com>,
    > "Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, "stable" <stable@vger.kernel.org>, "Linus Torvalds"
    > <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>, "Willy Tarreau" <w@1wt.eu>
    > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 10:48:49 PM
    > Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML
    >
    > On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 03:36:36AM -0400, CAI Qian wrote:
    > > > On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:31 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote:
    > > > > On 07/16/2013 07:12 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote:
    > > > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 06:54:59PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
    > > > > >> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 15:43 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
    > > > > > In order to make our community better, we need to figure out where
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > baseline of "good" behavior is. We need to define what behavior we
    > > > > > want
    > > > > > from both maintainers and patch submitters. E.g. "No regressions"
    > > > > > and
    > > > > > "don't break userspace" and "no personal attacks". That needs to be
    > > > > > written down somewhere, and it isn't. If it's documented somewhere,
    > > > > > point me to the file in Documentation. Hint: it's not there.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > That is the problem.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Sarah Sharp
    > > > >
    > > > > The problem you are pointing out - and it is a problem - makes us less
    > > > > effective
    > > > > as a community.
    > > >
    > > > Not really. Most of the people who already work as part of this
    > > > community are completely used to it. We've created the environment, and
    > > > have no problems with it.
    > > >
    > > > Where it could possibly be a problem is when it comes to recruiting
    > > > _new_ members to our community. Particularly so given that some
    > > > journalists take a special pleasure in reporting particularly juicy
    > > > comments and antics. That would tend to scare off a lot of gun-shy
    > > > newbies.
    > > >
    > > > On the other hand, it might tend to bias our recruitment toward people
    > > > of a more "special" disposition. Perhaps we finally need the services of
    > > > a social scientist to help us find out...
    > >
    > > Does that sound like there are not going to have enough direct/thick skin
    > > new kernel developers around to maintain the future Linux community? Maybe
    > > just need a better pipeline for people comfortable for this culture?
    >
    > No, we don't need a better pipeline for people who can "put up with
    > shit". We need a better pipeline for people who can work together
    > civilly, and still get shit done.
    >
    > I'm working on getting a pipeline of women into kernel development,
    > through the FOSS Outreach Program for Women. They slowly get introduced
    > to Linux development culture, starting with a very friendly separate
    > mailing list and IRC channel, and finally moving to work with a kernel
    > mentor on a bigger project on the main Linux kernel development lists.
    > We have seven women participating this round, and I suspect we'll have
    > even more the next round.
    >
    > So deal with it. You're going to have a lot more women in the kernel
    > community, and not all of them will be willing to put up with verbal
    > abuse. If you want to attract top talent that also happen to be women
    > or racial minorities, the verbal abuse needs to stop.
    Maybe we need something like this?
    http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct
    >
    > Sarah Sharp
    > --
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