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    SubjectRe: USB mini-summit at LinuxCon Vancouver
    Hi,

    On 08/09/2011 10:31 PM, Adam Baker wrote:
    > On Tuesday 09 August 2011, Hans de Goede wrote:

    <snip>

    > It has also just occured to me that it might be possible to solve the issues
    > we are facing just in the kernel. At the moment when the kernel performs a
    > USBDEVFS_DISCONNECT it keeps the kernel driver locked out until userspace
    > performs a USBDEVFS_CONNECT. If the kernel reattached the kernel driver when
    > the device file was closed then, as gvfs doesn't keep the file open the
    > biggest current issue would be solved instantly. If a mechanism could be found
    > to prevent USBDEVFS_DISCONNECT from succeeding when the corresponding
    > /dev/videox file was open then that would seem to be a reasonable solution.

    <sigh>

    This has been discussed over and over and over again, playing clever
    tricks with USBDEVFS_[DIS]CONNECT like adding a new USBDEVFS_TRYDISCONNECT
    which the v4l2 driver could intercept won't cut it. We need some central
    manager of the device doing multiplexing between the 2 functions, and you
    can *not* assume that either side will be nice wrt closing file descriptors.

    Examples:
    1) You are wrong wrt gvfs, it does keep the libgphoto2 context open all the
    time, and through that the usbfs device nodes.

    2) Lets say a user starts a photo managing app like f-spot, and that opens
    the device through libgphoto2 on startup, then the user switches to another
    virtual desktop and forgets all about having f-spot open. Notice that if
    the user now tries to stream he will not get a busy error, but the app trying
    to do the streaming will simply not see the camera at all (kernel driver
    unbound /dev/video# node is gone).

    3) Notice that little speaker icon in your panel on your average Linux
    desktop, that keeps the mixer of the audio device open *all the time* it
    is quite easy to imagine a similar applet for v4l2 device controls (see
    for example gtk-v4l) doing the same. Or a user could simply start up a
    v4l2 control panel app like gtk-v4l, qv4l2 or v4l2ucp, and leave it running
    minimized ...

    4) Some laptops have a Fn + F## key which enables / disables the builtin
    webcam by turning its power on / off. Effectively plugging it into / out
    of a usb port. We would like to have an on screen notification of this one
    day like we have now for brightness and volume controls, based on udev
    events. But the current dual mode cam stuff causes udev events for
    a *new* video device being added / an existing one being removed
    each time libgphoto2 releases / takes control of the camera.

    5) More in general, more and more software is dynamically monitoring the
    addition / removal of (usb) devices using udev, our current solution
    suggests to this software the /dev/video device is being unplugged /
    re-plugged all the time, not pretty.


    All in all what we've today is a kludge, and if we want to provide
    a "seamless" user experience we need to fix it.

    Don't get me wrong usbfs is a really nice solution for driving
    usb devices from userspace, like scanners and all other sorts of
    devices. But what all these devices have in common is that they
    have no kernel driver. Having a userspace based driver and a kernel
    driver "fight it out" just does not work well.

    Regards,

    Hans


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