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    SubjectRe: [git pull] drm request 3
    On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Maarten Maathuis <> wrote:
    > On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Linus Torvalds
    > <> wrote:
    >> Hmm. What the hell am I supposed to do about
    >>        (II) NOUVEAU(0): [drm] nouveau interface version: 0.0.16
    >>        (EE) NOUVEAU(0): [drm] wrong version, expecting 0.0.15
    >>        (EE) NOUVEAU(0): 879:
    >> now?
    >> What happened to the whole backwards compatibility thing? I wasn't even
    >> warned that this breaks existing user space. That makes it impossible to
    >> _test_ new kernels. Upgrading X and the kernel in lock-step is not a valid
    >> model, lots of people are just using some random distribution (F12 in my
    >> case), and you just broke it.
    >> I see the commit that does this was very aware of it:
    >>        commit a1606a9596e54da90ad6209071b357a4c1b0fa82
    >>        Author: Ben Skeggs <>
    >>        Date:   Fri Feb 12 10:27:35 2010 +1000
    >>            drm/nouveau: new gem pushbuf interface, bump to 0.0.16
    >>            This commit breaks the userspace interface, and requires a new libdrm for
    >>            nouveau to operate again.
    >>            The multiple GEM_PUSHBUF ioctls that were present in 0.0.15 for
    >>            compatibility purposes are now gone, and replaced with the new ioctl which
    >>            allows for multiple push buffers to be submitted (necessary for hw index
    >>            buffers in the nv50 3d driver) and relocations to be applied on any buffer.
    >>            A number of other ioctls (CARD_INIT, GEM_PIN, GEM_UNPIN) that were needed
    >>            for userspace modesetting have also been removed.
    >>            Signed-off-by: Ben Skeggs <>
    >>            Signed-off-by: Francisco Jerez <>
    >> but why the hell wasn't I made aware of it before-hand? Quite frankly, I
    >> probably wouldn't have pulled it.
    >> We can't just go around breaking peoples setups. This driver is, like it
    >> or not, used by Fedora-12 (and probably other distros). It may say
    >> "staging", but that doesn't change the fact that it's in production use by
    >> huge distributions. Flag days aren't acceptable.
    >>                Linus
    >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
    >> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
    >> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
    >> See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
    >> --
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> Dri-devel mailing list
    > What i'm about to say is my personal opinion, not that of nouveau as a
    > whole (not even sure if such a thing exists).
    > 1. We are in staging because our abi isn't final yet.
    > 2. We (already) adjusted our way of working to ensure we have a usable
    > and proper codebase by the time we are ready for mainline.
    > 3. Redhat through Ben Skeggs contributes to nouveau (quite a bit i agree).
    > 4. You are forcing red hat to force something on the rest of us.
    > 5. I for one am happy we keep a clean api.
    > 6. We keep an internal kernel tree that is tested to some degree (in
    > this case the abi break was in there for a few weeks iirc) none of the
    > developers asked for a revert.

    Point 6 is iirc, someone can correct me if this is not the case.

    > 7. Everyone (users, distros) are (or should) be aware of the nature of
    > this driver, our userspace interface is experimental for that very
    > reason.
    > 8. Experience has tought me that in the case of nouveau, if a
    > developer isn't using a codepath it will bitrot.
    > So please, also take into consideration that this project isn't solely
    > made by red hat and it's usually the other people that get to keep the
    > pieces.
    > Sincerely,
    > Maarten Maathuis.
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