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    SubjectRe: Staging, place holder for better company/community development model
    On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Greg KH <> wrote:
    > On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 11:14:56PM -0800, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
    >> A lot of people really hate the staging tree.
    > They do?  I've not gotten any complaints that I can remember about it.


    >> I don't but let me tell you why and I'd like to see if you concur with
    >> these particular concrete use cases and ideas on how to further use
    >> it.
    >> The ath9k driver came to many as a big surprise -- and since it was a
    >> surprise we had to do the work ourselves as a team at Atheros in
    >> closed doors, without the community's involvement until we got
    >> something standing up and not smelling as bad. Our own change in
    >> direction to work on things upstream can be seen later as well by the
    >> release of the 11n Otus driver and documentation provided to
    >> interested developers to port it to mac80211 (not to mention similar
    >> type of work for ath5k) -- Johannes quickly then ported it and created
    >> the ar9170 11n USB driver which is its replacement for otus and
    >> targeted for wireless-testing. Otus is currently part of the staging
    >> tree. While ar9170 has no 802.11n support users wishing to test 11n
    >> USB with an open driver can use the "vendor" driver. The idea is to
    >> minimize as time goes by the "port" effort and get things out to the
    >> community faster.
    >> With future devices we may want to create a better path for
    >> integration into upstream drivers. But I also want users to get
    >> support for the devices as soon as those devices hit shelves in the
    >> market, maybe even before. So I would like to think of staging not
    >> only as a place for people to put drivers which a company has no
    >> resources to do the right job but also perhaps to _do_ the actual port
    >> work _with_ the community together.
    > This is already happening today, with at least two different network
    > drivers, so I have no objection to this at all.

    Oh nice, which ones and what companies if you can say.

    >> By doing so we get devices supported with whatever ugly piece of code
    >> makes the device run (as long as its open, upstreamble, etc) but we
    >> also can engage with the community on the actual engineering and
    >> future of the actual driver we do want to support in Linux.
    >> As time goes by hopefully staging will not be necessary as companies
    >> (like ours) will have an immediate well defined structure for their
    >> drivers to easily add support for further devices.
    > Sounds fine to me.
    >> If we should take this approach -- should we send patches for wireless
    >> staging to John, or Greg? It would still be "crap" so I don't expect
    >> John to accept to help maintain crap but what if its crap with a clear
    >> defined path to un-crap land?
    > I'll gladly take them, no objections from me.

    Alright nice, will bounce this internally now.

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