lkml.org 
[lkml]   [2009]   [Dec]   [9]   [last100]   RSS Feed
Views: [wrap][no wrap]   [headers]  [forward] 
 
Messages in this thread
/
Date
From
SubjectRe: Async resume patch (was: Re: [GIT PULL] PM updates for 2.6.33)


On Wed, 9 Dec 2009, Alan Stern wrote:
>
> That could be attributed to reordering on CPU2, so let's take CPU2's
> peculiarities out of the picture (initially everything is set to 0):
>
> CPU1 CPU2
> ---- ----
> if (x == 1) z = y;
> y = 5; mb();
> x = 1;
>
> This gets at the heart of the question: Can a write move up past a
> control dependency?
> [ .. ]
> Can z end up equal to 5 in any of these examples?

In any _practical_ microarchitecture I know of, the above will never
result in 'z' being 5, even though CPU1 doesn't really have a memory
barrier. But if I read the alpha memory ordering guarantees rigth, then at
least in theory you really can end up with z=5.

Let me write that as five events (with the things in brackets being what
the alpha memory ordering manual calls them):

- A is "read of x returns 1" on CPU1 [ P1:R(x,1) ]
- B is "write of value 5 to y" on CPU1 [ P1:W(y,5) ]
- C is "read of y returns 5" on CPU2 [ P2:R(y,5) ]
- D is "write of value 1 to x" on CPU2 [ P2:W(x,1) ]
- 'MB' is the mb() on CPU2 [ P2:MB ]

(The write of 'z' is irrelevant, we can think of it as a register, the end
result is the same).

And yes, if I read the alpha memory ordering rules correctly, you really
can end up with z=5, although I don't think you will ever find an alpha
_implementation_ that does it.

Why?

The alpha memory ordering literally defines ordering in two ways:

- "location access order". But that is _only_ defined per actual
location, so while 'x' can have a location access order specified by
seeing certain values, there is no "location access order" for two
different memory locations (x and y).

The alpha architecture manual uses "A << B" to say "event A" is before
"event B" when there is a defined ordering.

So in the example above, there is a location access ordering between

P2:W(x,1) << P1:R(x, 1)

and

P2:R(y,5) << P1:W(y,5)

ie you have D << A and B << C.

Good so far, but that doesn't define anything else: there's only
ordering between the pairs (D,A) and (B,C), nothing between them.

- "Processor issue order" for two instruction is _only_ defined by either
(a) memory barriers or (b) accesses to the _same_ locations. The alpha
architecture manual uses "A < B" to say that "event A" is before "event
B" in processor issue order.

So there is a "Processor issue order" on CPU2 due to the memory
barrier: P2:R(y,5) < P2:MB < P2:W(x,1), or put another way C < MB < D:
C < D.

Now, the question is, can we actually get the behaviour of reading 5 on
CPU2 (ie P2:R(y,5)), and that is only possible if we can find an ordering
that satisfies all the constraints. We have

D << A
B << C
C < D

and it seems to be that it is a possible situation: "B C D A"
really does satisfy all the constraints afaik.
So yes, according to the actual alpha architecture memory ordering rules,
you can see '5' from that first read of 'y'. DESPITE having a mb() on
CPU2.

In order to not see 5, you need to also specify "A < B", and the _only_
way to do that processor issue order specification is with a memory
barrier (or if the locations are the same, which they aren't).

"Causality" simply is nowhere in the officially defined alpha memory
ordering. The fact that we test 'x == 1' and conditionally do the write
simply doesn't enter the picture. I suspect you'd have a really hard time
not having causality in practice, but there _are_ things that can break
causality (value prediction etc), so it's not like you'd have to actually
violate physics of reality to do it.

IOW, you could at least in theory implement a CPU that does every
instruction speculatively in parallel, and then validates the end result
afterwards according to the architecture rules. And that CPU would require
the memory barrier on alpha.

(On x86, 'causality' is defined to be part of the memory ordering rules,
so on x86, you _do_ have a 'A < B' relationship. But not on alpha).

Linus


\
 
 \ /
  Last update: 2009-12-09 22:57    [from the cache]
©2003-2014 Jasper Spaans. Advertise on this site