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    SubjectRe: Current status of rt2800usb and staging/rt2870
    Date
    On Thursday 15 October 2009 08:28:07 Gertjan van Wingerde wrote:
    > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz
    > <bzolnier@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > On Wednesday 14 October 2009 20:56:17 Ivo van Doorn wrote:
    > >> Hi,
    > >>
    > >> > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 05:28:21PM +0200, Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz wrote:
    > >> > >
    > >> > > > I don't have a have a problem with it personally as long as people accept
    > >> > > > the competition.. but instead of working on _their_ projects they go around
    > >> > > > screaming at everybody who does not want to spin inside the great process
    > >> > > > designed by them..
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Please whine somewhere else. You have the freedom to work in
    > >> > > drivers/staging all you want. You do not have the power to force us to
    > >> > > like it -- especially in a case where you are diverting attention from
    > >> > > the community-maintained drivers instead of cooperating with them.
    > >> >
    > >> > Cooperating you say.
    > >> >
    > >> > rtl8187 -- before starting the work on rtl8187se I've pinged the maintainer
    > >> > to coordinate the effort and hear his opinion on how to progress..
    > >> >
    > >> > I've never heard back.
    > >> >
    > >> > rt2x00 -- I know that people have datasheets for some chipsets but I've
    > >> > never heard "How can we help you" etc. thing.
    > >>
    > >> The rt2x00 members received the specsheets under the condition that we didn't
    > >> distribute them further.
    > >>
    > >> So everybody which requested the datasheets from the rt2x00 project were presented
    > >> with a choice:
    > >> 1) We provide the email address of the Ralink contact person which can device if you
    > >> can get the specsheet or not (possibly under NDA, but this isn't always the case).
    > >> 2) Specific questions about the registers can be asked and we give all the information we
    > >> know from our work on the rt2x00 project plus additional information from the specsheet.
    > >> Seeing that the specsheet doesn't always match reality, you get the better answers with
    > >> this option, but some people just hate it when they need to ask other people for stuff.
    > >>
    > >> > All I've ever heard was _lies_ about current state of affairs or that
    > >> > my work is in the way.
    > >>
    > >> I have encounterd your email address in only 2 rt2x00 related discussions
    > >> (yes I have checked my entire email archive). Both cases were regarding
    > >> staging vs rt2x00.
    > >>
    > >> So far I never said rt2800usb or rt2800pci were high quality, I never said they were in a good
    > >> shape. On the other hand, I often talked about the problems with the drivers, requesting help
    > >> to improve the drivers, etc etc.
    > >>
    > >> So are you basing this "I am hearing lies" about a random person talking on the street
    > >> about rt2x00 which is telling the lie?
    > >
    > > Maybe I've used a bit too strong wording but the fact is that vendor drivers
    > > are useful for providing users with *unsupported* and *temporary* solution
    > > until the proper drivers are in place have been questioned a lot in the past,
    > > and sorry but it is a fact (it may be hard to swallow but it shouldn't be
    > > discussed about).
    > >
    > > The staging is a new game in town and provides real benefit for end-users
    > > to use their hardware early while proper solutions are being worked on (not
    > > like most of distributions weren't shipping crap drivers anyway -- now at
    > > least we have some control over it).
    > >
    > > This is extremely important in segments where Linux is still not the leading
    > > OS. We cannot tell users to go hike -- they are our users! Moreover they
    > > are quite smart so they will use what works best for their needs anyway,
    > > not necessarily what is the easiest for us to maintain in the long-term or
    > > work on.
    > >
    > > Staging also helps companies involved to transform their software offerings
    > > in a more smooth way. Often such transition requires long process and much
    > > work on the company side to adapt to our model of doing things so patience
    > > is recommended. (Lets not forget that staging provides also a stick part,
    > > drivers are removed from staging if nobody cares about them and even if
    > > there are volunteers caring about support for certain hardware the company
    > > will still get a bad publicity if it doesn't participate in the process)..
    > >
    > > So staging is here to stay and it is up to particular maintainers how they
    > > are going to it use this "tool" and integrate it into their current mode of
    > > operation..
    > >
    > > I'm sorry if my words were offending to you or other wireless developers.
    > > I kind of feel the frustration of people who had put years of effort into
    > > providing the proper wireless infrastructure + drivers and are ignored
    > > by vendors. However we have to keep the ball rolling and cannot dismiss
    > > valid user complaints or ignore other possibilities of doing things.
    > >
    >
    > All,
    >
    > I don't think this discussion is leading us anywhere.
    > I believe everybody agrees with the "staging"/Ralink provided drivers to be good
    > to provide end-users a working solution until the rt2x00 driver has
    > been completed.
    >
    > However, the problem that we have seen (from the rt2x00 project point
    > of view) is that
    > the Ralink drivers that are in staging are confusing / distraction
    > developer attention. We
    > have had quite a few occasions where new developers started to work on
    > the staging
    > drivers, as they thought these were "the way to go".
    >
    > I think that can be easily solved by including in the Ralink staging
    > drivers a README
    > file pointing to the rt2x00 drivers, and a note stating that the
    > rt2x00 drivers are the ones
    > for long-term Linux support, and that the staging drivers are there
    > just to help users making
    > their hardware work.

    I think that there is already a note stating something like that.

    However if you think that something needs to be added or changed then
    please just send Greg a patch


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