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SubjectRe: [PATCH 14/15] rfkill: do not allow userspace to override ALL RADIOS OFF
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On Thursday 22 May 2008, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Tue, 20 May 2008, Ivo van Doorn wrote:
> > On Sunday 18 May 2008, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> > > SW_RFKILL_ALL is the "emergency power-off all radios" input event. It must
> > > be handled, and must always do the same thing as far as the rfkill system
> > > is concerned: all transmitters are to go *immediately* offline.
> >
> > I don't quite agree here. The SW_RFKILL_ALL key is the one send by thinkpad-acpi,
> > what makes that key so special that is has to be handled differently then a key
> > that only controls a single radio type?
>
> Well, first there is no KEY involved, it is a SWITCH :-) But that's not
> the reason it is special.
>
> What makes SW_RFKILL_ALL special, is that it is the kernel view of *The*
> RFKill Switch. SW_RFKILL_ALL is the event you get when the user
> manipulates the very *thing* that created the "rfkill switch" term.

So do keys that are pressed that only send the KEY_WLAN, KEY_BLUETOOTH or
KEY_UWB signals. They all indicate the key has been pressed and the radios
should be turned on/off.

> You get that event when someone moves that slider switch in the side/top
> of a laptop which has to kill all RF output in hardware as far as safety
> regulations go. Therefore, it refers to the only rfkill switch that has
> guidelines that say that it must always work, and that it must not be
> possible to override it in software.

That is a valid point, and rfkill is supposed to do that, but making
a difference between RFKILL_ALL and the individual types is wrong
because that won't result in a clearly defined expected behavior for all
rfkill keys.

> Too bad that doesn't apply to "removable" radio transmitters, like
> PCMCIA and ExpressCard WLAN cards, USB RF transmitters, and so on...
> probably, the user is expected to yank them off when he moves the switch
> to the "no radios working here!" position. Well, we can do better. We
> can make it apply to these other radio transmitters, too.

Through the write-only rfkill class right? ;)

> So yes, it *is* special when it is doing its "power DOWN the
> transmitters" function. It is not special at all when it is in the
> "allow radios to function if they want to" position, which is why I
> special-cased only the "OFF" state.
>
> IMHO, that makes it special enough to implement it in a different way
> that is not subject to, e.g., brain damage in userspace.
>
> As for thinkpad-acpi being the only in-tree code issuing that event so
> far, well... I have seen laptops from many vendors with that switch, and
> it is likely that the firmware of at least some of these laptops let you
> know the state of the switch (like the thinkpad firmware does), so I'd
> expect more users of SW_RFKILL_ALL to show up soon. I am just paving
> the way.
>
> That, and as an user, I'd really like to be able to implement a
> KEY_RFKILL_ALL keycode to use when I don't have a proper SW_RFKILL_ALL
> in my laptop. But one thing at a time. Small steps.
>
> > All keys should have the same rules when it is pressed, so either all keys should
> > force the change, or none of them should.
>
> IMO, "kill ALL radios" events are is the only kind of rfkill input event
> that have to *always work*, even if something in userspace tried to
> configure it not to.

Well the definition of "ALL radios" is the part that is the question, when the KEY_WLAN is
pressed it would be "ALL WLAN radios" and should still have the same rules for allowing
or disallowing userspace to overwrite the status.

Ivo


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