[lkml]   [2007]   [Jul]   [26]   [last100]   RSS Feed
Views: [wrap][no wrap]   [headers]  [forward] 
Messages in this thread
    SubjectRe: sk98lin for 2.6.23-rc1
    Adrian Bunk wrote:
    > On Thu, Jul 26, 2007 at 11:16:36AM -0400, Kyle Rose wrote:
    >> >From
    >> Since the sky2 driver continues to suck ass (which is a technical
    >> description for "it hangs all the time under load, at least on my
    >> hardware" :-) ), I've fixed the sk98lin driver to compile for
    >> linux-2.6.23-rc1. Those who continue to have problems with sky2 can
    >> still use 2.6.23-rc1, simply by doing the following:
    >> ...
    >> Personally, I'd like to see sk98lin remain in the kernel proper until
    >> sky2 goes at least 6 months without reported problems. The fact that I
    >> am not the only one still seeing issues is a clear indication that sky2
    >> (even with the recent patches in 2.6.23-rc1) is not yet ready to replace
    >> sk98lin.
    >> ...
    > This sounds good in theory.
    > The practical problem with this approach is that there are always many
    > people who use the old driver when the new driver doesn't work for them
    > instead of reporting their problems with the new driver.
    Yes, you've grasped the reason for leaving the old driver in, so people
    can use their computers. Because when there is a new driver for
    previously unsupported hardware people will be glad to put time into
    debugging it to make the hardware useful. But when you take out a
    working driver because you (ie. the responsible developer) have a new
    idea which interests you, users don't want to use it because they have
    something which works, so you take out the working driver to make work
    for the users and create what you call a "better new driver" below.

    The old driver wasn't requiring any resources to maintain, the old
    hardware wasn't changing, there was no particular benefit to users in
    breaking their configuration. This disregard for the users just gives
    Linux critics an arguing point, "the next new kernel may withdraw
    support for your hardware." Isn't that why 2.6.16 is still being
    maintained? Nobody (sane) expects new drivers to be perfect, they just
    don't expect the working drivers to be disabled.

    > For these people a new driver will often suck when the old driver gets
    > removed, but after the removal of the old driver they are finally forced
    > to report their bugs resulting in a better new driver for everyone.
    "Better" is a very subjective thing, you see elegance of design perhaps,
    I see works or not, and when I have to use statistical methods to see
    latency or CPU overhead benefits, I frankly don't care.

    Removing a working driver without a fully functional replacement forces
    people to stop upgrading their kernel, or start maintaining old drivers
    out of line. Problems of the "just occasionally goes away" type can take
    months to debug, the load can't be duplicated in most cases, and there's
    no log or oops data to help.

    > The sky2 driver is since nearly 2 years in the kernel and Stephen is
    > usually quite good at handling bugs.
    Where does sky2 come in? Does this mean the the recent suggestion to
    "just change to skge and stop complaining" is also wrong?

    Bill Davidsen <>
    "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
    the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
    To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
    the body of a message to
    More majordomo info at
    Please read the FAQ at

     \ /
      Last update: 2007-07-27 01:41    [W:0.045 / U:50.424 seconds]
    ©2003-2016 Jasper Spaans. hosted at Digital OceanAdvertise on this site