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SubjectRe: Documentation for sysfs, hotplug, and firmware loading.
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:39:53 -0400,
Rob Landley <rob@landley.net> wrote:

> Nope. If you recurse down under /sys/class following symlinks, you go into an
> endless loop bouncing off of /sys/devices and getting pointed back. If you
> don't follow symlinks, it works fine up until about 2.6.20 at which point
> things that were previously directories BECAME symlinks because the
> directories got moved, and it all broke.

I have no idea what you're doing.

> Which is why I want it documented where to look for these suckers. Just give
> me ONE STABLE WAY TO FIND THIS INFORMATION, PLEASE.

See Documentation/sysfs-rules.txt.

> This document is trying to document just enough information to make hotplug
> work using sysfs (which includes firmware loading if necessary).
>
> > (And how about referring to Documentation/sysfs-rules.txt?)
>
> Because there isn't one in 2.6.22, and I've been writing this file on and off
> for a month as I tracked down various bits of information?

That was a _suggestion_.

> I know. I'm just trying to show people how to do it. Notice that this script
> doesn't DO anything, it just dumps the variables (and proves
> that /sys/hotplug got called). You're worried about the scalability of a
> debugging script.

If you use bash scripts as examples, people will write bash scripts.

> (Rummage) Seems to be "add, remove, change, online, offline, move"?
>
> I can list 'em. Now I'm vaguely curious what generates online and offline
> events (MII transciever state transitions on a network card, or does this
> have to do with power saving modes?) And I have no idea what the difference
> between "change" and "move" is....

"change" - something about the device has changed
"move" - the device is in a different position in the tree now

You may want to grep for the usage...

>
> > > DEVPATH
> > > Path under /sys at which this device's sysfs directory can be found.
> > > If $DEVPATH begins with /block/ the event refers to a block device,
> > > otherwise it refers to a char device.
> >
> > Huh? That's just the path in sysfs. And there's more than block and
> > char :) Check SUBSYSTEM for what your device actually is.
>
> If you are doing mknod, you need three pieces of information:
> 1) Major, 2) Minor, 3) Block or Char device. That's pretty much it. If
> you're trying to populate /dev you need that info.
>
> > > SUBSYSTEM
> > > If this is "block", it's a block device. Anything else is a char
> > > device.
> >
> > No. For devices, SUBSYSTEM may be the class (like 'scsi_device') or the
> > bus (like 'pci').
>
> Do you make a /dev node for either one?
>
> I'm trying to, at minimum, document what you pass to mknod. I consider it
> important to know.

The problem is that your information is wrong. Imagine someone reading
this document, thinking "cool, I'll create a char node if
SUBSYSTEM!=block" and subsequently getting completely confused about
all those SUBSYSTEM==pci events.

>
> > > DRIVER
> > > If present, a suggested driver (module) for handling this device. No
> > > relation to whether or not a driver is currently handling the device.
> >
> > No, this actually is the current driver.
>
> I've had it suggest drivers for devices that didn't have any loaded, and I had
> it _not_ specify drivers for devices that were loaded. (I checked.)

The code disagrees with you. If a driver matches and probing succeeds,
it will be specified, otherwise not. Maybe you were checking the wrong
devices?

> Ah yes. I replied to that when it was first posted. It's still "here's a
> list of things NOT to do" rather then telling you what you CAN do. I'm
> trying to document what you can do.
>
> Useful documentation is not "Doing THIS is forbidden. Doing THIS is
> forbidden. Doing THIS is forbidden. What are you allowed to do? Guess!
> Oh, and anything I didn't explicitly mention could change at any time. Have
> fun."

It _does_ specify what you may rely on. Don't rely on anything else.

> Sysfs CAN export a stable API. It may only be a subset of what it's
> exporting, but it can still do so.

And that is exactly what sysfs-rules.txt is doing. I don't understand
your problem.

If you think that getting this information from sysfs-rules.txt could
be made easier, do a patch against it.
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