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    SubjectRe: [patch 00/13] Syslets, "Threadlets", generic AIO support, v3
    On 3/6/07, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz> wrote:
    > > >As for why common abstractions like file are a good thing, think about why
    > > >having "/dev/null" is cleaner that having a special plug DEVNULL_FD fd
    > > >value to be plugged everywhere,
    > >
    > > This is a stupid comparaison. By your logic we should also have /dev/stdin,
    > > /dev/stdout and /dev/stderr.
    >
    > Bzzt, wrong. We have them.
    >
    > pavel@amd:~$ ls -al /dev/std*
    > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Nov 12 2003 /dev/stderr -> fd/2
    > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Nov 12 2003 /dev/stdin -> fd/0
    > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Nov 12 2003 /dev/stdout -> fd/1
    > pavel@amd:~$ ls -al /proc/self/fd
    > total 0
    > dr-x------ 2 pavel users 0 Mar 6 09:18 .
    > dr-xr-xr-x 4 pavel users 0 Mar 6 09:18 ..
    > lrwx------ 1 pavel users 64 Mar 6 09:18 0 -> /dev/ttyp2
    > lrwx------ 1 pavel users 64 Mar 6 09:18 1 -> /dev/ttyp2
    > lrwx------ 1 pavel users 64 Mar 6 09:18 2 -> /dev/ttyp2
    > lr-x------ 1 pavel users 64 Mar 6 09:18 3 -> /proc/2299/fd
    > pavel@amd:~$

    I don't believe I'm wasting my time explaining this. They don't exist
    as /dev/null, they are just fucking _LINKS_. I could even "ln -s
    /proc/self/fd/0 sucker". A real /dev/stdout can/could even exist, but
    that's not the point!

    It remains a stupid comparison because /dev/stdin/stderr/whatever
    "must" be plugged, else how could a process write to stdout/stderr
    that it coud'nt open it ? The way things are is not because it's
    cleaner to have it as a file but because it's the only sane way.
    /dev/null is not a must have, it's mainly used for redirecting
    purposes. A sys_nullify(fileno(stdout)) would rule out almost any use
    of /dev/null.

    > > >As for why common abstractions like file are a good thing, think about why
    > > >having "/dev/null" is cleaner that having a special plug DEVNULL_FD fd
    > > >value to be plugged everywhere,

    > > >But here the list could be almost endless.
    > > >And please don't start the, they don't scale or they need heavy file
    > > >binding tossfeast. They scale as well as the interface that will receive
    > > >them (poll, select, epoll). Heavy file binding what? 100 or so bytes for
    > > >the struct file? How many signal/timer fd are you gonna have? Like 100K?
    > > >Really moot argument when opposed to the benefit of being compatible with
    > > >existing POSIX interfaces and being more Unix friendly.
    > >
    > > So why the HELL don't we have those yet? Why haven't you designed
    > > epoll with those in mind? Why don't you back your claims with patches?
    > > (I'm not a kernel developer.)
    >
    > Either stop flaming kernel developers or become one. It is that
    > simple.
    >

    If I were to become a kernel developer I would stick with FreeBSD. At
    least they have kqueue for about seven years now.

    --
    Kirk Kuchov
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