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    SubjectRe: [PATCH] Time-based RFC 4122 UUID generator
    On Tuesday 20 November 2007, Matt Mackall wrote:
    > On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 10:40:34PM +0100, Helge Deller wrote:
    > > On Sunday 18 November 2007, Andrew Morton wrote:
    > > > On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:38:21 +0100 Helge Deller <> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Title: Add time-based RFC 4122 UUID generator
    > > > >
    > > > > The current Linux kernel currently contains the generate_random_uuid()
    > > > > function, which creates - based on RFC 4122 - truly random UUIDs and
    > > > > provides them to userspace through /proc/sys/kernel/random/boot_id and
    > > > > /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid.
    > > > >
    > > > > This patch additionally adds the "Time-based UUID" variant of RFC 4122,
    > > > > with which userspace applications can easily get real unique time-based
    > > > > UUIDs through /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid_time.
    > > > > A new /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid_time_clockseq sysfs entry is available,
    > > > > so that the clock_seq value can be retained across system bootups (which
    > > > > is required by RFC 4122).
    > > > >
    > > > > The attached implementation uses getnstimeofday() to get very fine-grained
    > > > > granularity. This helps, so that userspace tools can get a lot more UUIDs
    > > > > (if needed) per time than before.
    > > > > A mutex takes care of the proper locking against a mistaken double creation
    > > > > of UUIDs for simultanious running processes.
    > >
    > >
    > > > Who will use this feature, and for what?
    > > > (In fact, who uses the existing UUID generators, and for what?)
    > >
    > > Current users I know of (but there are more):
    > > - e2fsprogs uses it e.g. to create unique UUIDs for disks (it ships an own library for that)
    > > - uses it with own libraries
    > > - SAP Netweaver on Linux uses it (
    > >
    > > I'm mostly interested in fixing problems I see with SAP (I'm working for SAP).
    > > SAP Netweaver often needs during a very short time frame lots of unique UUIDs
    > > (to reference the data afterwards) when new data is imported into the database.
    > > Main problem with current implementations is, is that they don't 100%
    > > guarantee uniqness of the generated UUIDs. Sometimes, esp. on very fast
    > > multi-processor machines, double UUIDs are generated and returned to the
    > > application which is very bad and may result in unreliable behaviour.
    > >
    > > Current implemenations use userspace-libraries. In userspace you e.g. can't
    > > easily protect the uniquness of a UUID against other running _processes_.
    > > If you try do, you'll need to do locking e.g. with shared memory, which can
    > > get very expensive.
    > Even with a futex? Or userspace atomics?

    Yes, you'll need a futex or similiar.
    The problem is then more, where will you put that futex to be able to protect against other processes ?
    Best solution is probably shared memory, but then the question will be, who is allowed to access this memory/futex ?
    Will any process (shared library) be allowed to read/write/delete it ?
    At this stage you then suddenly run from a locking-problem into a security problem, which is probably equally hard to solve.
    Btw, this is how Novell tried to solve the time-based UUID generator problem in SLES and it's still not 100% fixed.

    > I think something as simple
    > as a server stuffing a bunch of clock sequence numbers into a pipe
    > for clients to pop into their generated UUIDs should be plenty fast
    > enough.

    Sounds simple and is probably fast enough.
    But do you really want to add then another daemon to the Linux system, just in case "some" application needs somewhen a UUID ?
    And I think such an implementation is more complex, would need more memory, file handles, and so on than this simple kernel patch.

    > > The problem will get even worse with virtualization technologies like XEN and
    > > containers. There it's even impossible to protect against processes in other VMs.
    > Nor does it make sense to try! A virtual machine is an independent machine
    > after all.


    > > Another user which could benefit from it are embedded devices. They could
    > > drop their userspace-implementations in favour of this smaller kernel version
    > > to create UUIDs for their disks, using it in the webservers, ...
    > That's a silly tradeoff. It's an unusual embedded device that ships
    > with any need for a UUID, especially mkfs.

    I think mkfs was a very bad example from my side. I should not have mentioned this one.
    Nevertheless, time-based UUIDs are used in quite many other and more critical applications than e2fsprogs tools.

    > And generally, putting a
    > feature in the kernel has no inherent size advantage. In fact, it has
    > a size disadvantage: it's no longer pageable.

    True, but let's look at the facts.

    Current (from e2fsprogs) library on Fedora 7 (i386):
    text data bss dec hex filename
    8101 368 40 8509 213d /lib/

    And the kernel implementation:
    text data bss dec hex filename
    4877 604 2080 7561 1d89 drivers/char/random.o.without_uuid
    5976 752 2080 8808 2268 drivers/char/random.o.withuuid

    So my patch increases the kernel by 1099 bytes text and 148 bytes data while guaranteeing 100% unique UUIDs. takes 8k test and 368 bytes data, and does not guarantees the uniqueness.
    Of course has some helper functions as well in here, which - to be fair - shouldn't be counted.
    Nevertheless, I think you can't get any smaller, faster and more secure implementation than only in the kernel.

    Maybe it would make sense to add a CONFIG_TIME_UUID kernel option, so that distributors can decide themselves if they want the kernel UUID generator compiled in?
    At least for Enterprise-ready Linux distributions it's a must.

    > ps: I'm the listed random.c maintainer so you'll want to cc: me in the
    > future.


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