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    SubjectRe: Time to remove LSM (was Re: [RESEND][RFC][PATCH 2/7] implementation of LSM hooks)
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    On Mon, 2006-04-24 at 08:54 -0500, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
    > Quoting Arjan van de Ven (arjan@infradead.org):
    > > On Mon, 2006-04-24 at 08:29 -0500, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
    > > > Quoting Arjan van de Ven (arjan@infradead.org):
    > > > > On Mon, 2006-04-24 at 08:09 -0500, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
    > > > > > Quoting Arjan van de Ven (arjan@infradead.org):
    > > > > > > for all such things in the first place. In fact, we already know that to
    > > > > > > do auditing, LSM is the wrong thing to do (and that's why audit doesn't
    > > > > > > use LSM). It's one of those fundamental linux truths: Trying to be
    > > > > >
    > > > > > As I recall it was simply decided that LSM must be "access control
    > > > > > only", and that was why it wasn't used for audit.
    > > > >
    > > > > no you recall incorrectly.
    > > > > Audit needs to audit things that didn't work out, like filenames that
    > > > > don't exist. Audit needs to know what is going to happen before the
    > > > > entire "is this allowed" chain is going to be followed. SELInux and
    > > > > other LSM parts are just one part of that chain, and there's zero
    > > > > guarantee that you get to the LSM part in the chain..... Now of course
    > > >
    > > > Ah yes. It needed to be authoritative. I did recall incorrectly.
    > > >
    > > > I suspect some would argue that you are right that LSM is broken, but
    > > > only because it wasn't allowed to be authoritative.
    > >
    > > authoritative isn't enough; think about it. The VFS isn't ever going to
    > > ask "can I open this file" if the file doesn't exist in the first place;
    >
    > Current audit doesn't do that either, does it?

    As far as I know, it actually does. (assuming you configure it do audit
    such events obviously)

    > It labels the parent
    > inode, so if /var/spool/mail doesn't exist, and you look up
    > /var/spool/mail/hallyn, you won't get an audit record.


    > You'd have to do
    > that by auditing all open syscalls at the syscall level.

    That's a wrong assumption. There is one level below the syscall level as
    well in Linux, and that is where you need to audit for this, and afaik
    audit actually does that.



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