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    SubjectRe: I request inclusion of reiser4 in the mainline kernel
    On 9/18/05, Christoph Hellwig <> wrote:
    > On Sun, Sep 18, 2005 at 01:21:23PM +0300, Denis Vlasenko wrote:
    > > This is it. I do not say "accept reiser4 NOW", I am saying "give Hans
    > > good code review".
    > After he did his basic homework. Note that reviewing hans code is probably
    > at the very end of everyones todo list because every critizm of his code
    > starts a huge flamewar where hans tries to attack everyone not on his
    > party line personally.
    > I've said I'm gonna do a proper review after he has done the basic homework,
    > which he seems to have half-done now at least. Right now he hasn't finished

    Explain to us all what is this "basic homework" of which you speak.

    > that and there's much more exciting filesystems like ocfs2 around that

    This is exciting to... whom? The only thing that appears remotely
    interesting about it is that it's made by Oracle and apparently is
    supposed to be geared toward parallel server whatsits. This might be
    helpful to corporations, but seems senseless toward many consumers.
    (I'm assuming there's still at least one consumer left who still uses

    > are much easier to read and actually have developers that you can have
    > a reasonable conversation with. (and that unlike hans actually try to

    Is that Hans' fault, or the fault of your lot? Why can't we all just get along?

    Give Hans a chance; and please try to understand, even if he's hard to
    work with. Discriminate him because he's not a developer you can talk
    with, and I believe that's like discriminating a guy in a wheelchair
    because he can't run with you when you jog in the morning.

    > improve core code where it makes sense for them)

    Not everyone has the same "common sense" that you do. Explain, fully,
    with reasoning, and reproducable back-up statistics on common
    hardware, what code is wrong, and what must be written instead. We'd
    like to be efficient, and it's not being efficient to play a guessing
    game with us. If you don't have the time to review, then please hold
    off on replying until you have a through review of at least part of
    the code.

    Unless you object fully to one particular, fixable thing that isn't
    the core of Reiser4, it'd be nice for you to wait on replying --
    vagueness is not helpful to development in any way. Are we supposed
    to be the million monkeys randomly typing on a million typewriters
    waiting for someone to give you code that you like, one in a million

    Also, let's say that Reiser4 doesn't get into the kernel, as maybe XFS
    or ext2 or ext3 had never gotten into the kernel. How would their
    development be now as opposed to how we see it, when they have gotten
    into the kernel? I don't see anything wrong with the idea of letting
    what seems a mostly mature FS into the kernel; that is how most bugs
    are found in the first place. Of course, there is nothing wrong with
    putting huge warnings on the FS; I'd recommend them, considering that
    some people are having funky problems with the patch.

    I'm willing to go compare Reiser4 to ext2/3 as like H.264 to Mpeg-2.
    Indeed, H.264 crashes some computers, similar to Reiser4 might crash
    some machines, but this is merely because Reiser4 explores new
    concepts, meaning it may require hardyier hardware than ext2/3, as
    H.264 requries hardier hardware than Mpeg-2. I believe that the
    concept is the same. (And all the same, media companies are embracing
    H.264 - why can't you guys embrace this new idea also?) Change is
    hard. Besides, if Reiser4 is truely that flawed, we will see in a few
    releases, and then afterwards if it's proven to everyone that Reiser4
    is completely unrepairable and hopeless, it can then be ditched and
    thrown into the trash.

    My apologies for my rudeness, but I am rather fond of the developments
    in Reiser4, and would love to see it in the kernel. I am fond of
    Linux too, and the work that you guys do, and it would dissapoint me
    sorrily if Reiser4 never makes it into the Linux kernel. Feel free to
    say I'm a tad biased; I will say now that I probably have much less
    merit in the field than you guys do.

    - Just my two cents
    - No man is an island, and no man is unable.
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