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    SubjectRe: recommended mail clients [was] [PATCH] ati-agp suspend/resume support (try 2)
    On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:33:09 -0800 Randy.Dunlap wrote:

    [snip]

    > > >>>>>>>>>> I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I
    > > >>>>>>>>>> ssh into
    > > >>>>>>>>>> my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine
    > > >>>>>>>>>> and it
    > > >>>>>>>>>> handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu
    > > >>>>>>>>>> "Normal"
    > > >>>>>>>>>> may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text
    > > >>>>>>>>>> files
    > > >>>>>>>>>> "as-is").
    > > >>>>>>>>>>
    > > >>>>> This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right
    > > >>>>> thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping
    > > >>>>> to the
    > > >>>>> inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch
    > > >>>>> - at
    > > >>>>> least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>>> Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a
    > > >>>>>>>>> long time.
    > > >>>>>>>>> It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes
    > > >>>>>>>>> are left
    > > >>>>>>>>> untouched.
    > > >>>>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>> It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has
    > > >>>>>>>> this
    > > >>>>>>>> problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline
    > > >>>>>>>> patches and
    > > >>>>>>>> even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a
    > > >>>>>>>> serious
    > > >>>>>>>> usability/UI issue.
    > > >>>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>> Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to
    > > >>>>>>>> SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla
    > > >>>>>>>> developers
    > > >>>>>>>> at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far)
    > > >>>>>>>> and
    > > >>>>>>>> hopefully this will light a fire under someone.
    > > >>>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps
    > > >>>>>>> AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never
    > > >>>>>>> understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for
    > > >>>>>>> composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>> Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in
    > > >>>>> 'Preformat' mode.
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece
    > > >>>>>>> of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express
    > > >>>>>>> (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping
    > > >>>>>>> pastes).
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but
    > > >>>>>>> convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is
    > > >>>>>>> probably much harder.
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into
    > > >>>>>> "Preformat"
    > > >>>>>> mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>> Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat'
    > > >>>>> before
    > > >>>>> pasting patches into Thunderbird.
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>> In my thunderbird, the "Paste Without Formatting" mode seems to be
    > > >>>> continually grayed out (i.e. unavailable). I couldn't find anything
    > > >>>> in the preferences that altered this situation. What's the secret?
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>> I'm selecting 'Preformat' in the email compose window and using regular
    > > >>> X Paste (middle button) - and it works for me (I can save the resulting
    > > >>> message to a .eml and diff it against the patch and it is perfect).
    > > >>> Perhaps the Debian/Sid Thunderbird has some patch? Don't know.
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >> so where is this 'Preformat' option? I don't see it.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Nor me.
    > > >
    > > It is a drop down box in the Compose window just below the subject field
    > > on the left (intially says "Body Text").
    >
    > However, if one has disabled "Compose messages in HTML format",
    > that drop-down list does not show up.
    > So does this generate an HTML email, using <preformat> or <tt> etc.?
    > If so, still bad. I'll test it to myself.

    Looks good. Preserves tabs and spaces. Not HTML email.
    Thanks.

    > > If you haven't got the rich text Compose enabled (not sure how you
    > > disable/enable this but it was an option in Mozilla Mail) you can hold
    > > down shift when you click 'Write'.
    > >
    > > I'm running Debian/Sid Thunderbird 1.0.7 BTW.


    ---
    ~Randy
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