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On Sunday 31 October 2004 01:27, Tim Hockin wrote: > On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 01:11:07AM +0300, Denis Vlasenko wrote: > > I am not a code genius, but want to help. > > > > Hmm probably some bloat-detection tools would be helpful, > > like "show me source_lines/object_size ratios of fonctions in > > this ELF object file". Those with low ratio are suspects of > > excessive inlining etc. > > The problem with apps of this sort is the multiple layers of abstraction. > > Xlib, GLib, GTK, GNOME, Pango, XML, etc. I think it makes sense to start from lower layers first: Kernel team is reasonably aware of the bloat danger. glibc is worse, but thanks to heroic actions of Eric Andersen we have mostly feature complete uclibc, 4 times (!) smaller than glibc. Xlib, GLib.... - didn't look into them apart from cases when they do not build or in bug hunting sessions. Quick data point: glib-1.2.10 is 1/2 of uclibc in size. glib-2.2.2 is 2 times uclibc. x4 growth :( > No one wants to duplicate effort (rightly so). Each of these libs tries > to do EVERY POSSIBLE thing. They all end up bloated. Then you have to > link them all in. You end up bloated. Then it is very easy to rely on > those libs for EVERYTHING, rather thank actually thinking. > > So you end up with the mindset of, for example, "if it's text it's XML". > You have to parse everything as XML, when simple parsers would be tons > faster and simpler and smaller. > > Bloat is cause by feature creep at every layer, not just the app. I actually tried to convince maintainers of one package that their code is needlessly complex. I did send patches to remedy that a bit while fixing real bugs. Rejected. Bugs were planned to be fixed by adding more code. I've lost all hope on that case. I guess this is a reason why bloat problem tend to be solved by rewrite from scratch. I could name quite a few cases: glibc -> dietlibc,uclibc coreutils -> busybox named -> djbdns inetd -> daemontools+ucspi-tcp sendmail -> qmail syslogd -> socklog (http://smarden.org/socklog/) It's sort of frightening that someone will need to rewrite Xlib or, say, OpenOffice :( -- vda - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ | ||||||||||
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