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    SubjectRe: Ptrace hole / Linux 2.2.25
    >> The distros inherently have a conflict of interest getting changes merged
    >> back into mainline ... it's time consuming to do, it provides them no real
    >> benefit (they have to maintain their huge trees anyway), and it actively
    >> damages the "value add" they provide.
    >
    > I do not disagree.
    >
    > Although, I think there is incentive to get work merged. It _does_
    > reduce maintenance. I think you can see Red Hat merging stuff back. I
    > know my employer encourages everything I do to be done openly and get it
    > merged. Its a huge benefit to maintenance and QA to get stuff merged.

    Yeah, I think it happens on the whole, despite the conflict of interest;
    but frustratingly slowly. There's two sides to that equation though.

    >> If that's people's attitude ("you should use a vendor"), then we need a
    >> 2.4-fixed tree to be run by somebody with an interest in providing
    >> critical bugfixes to the community with no distro ties. People may be
    >> perfectly capable of finding, applying, and collecting their own patches,
    >> but that's no reason to make it difficult.
    >
    > No where above did I say "you should use a vendor"
    >
    > In fact, what I did say is "I think users can and should compile their
    > own kernel if they want. And as kernel developers, we should facilitate
    > that."

    Right. I just think mainline should provide that facilitation role.
    If it doesn't, then if someone can gather the patches together, it'd
    help a lot. Applying the patches less of a problem than finding out what
    to apply ... following LKML isn't feasible for most people.

    > I merely suggest that users should not expect anything if they go it
    > there own. They need to follow the lists and be informed. Its like me
    > assuming I can maintain my car without a mechanic and then freaking out
    > when I did not hear about a service defect. Actually, a better analogy
    > may include me knowing nothing about cars, too :)

    yeah, but it's more like "should we have someone list the service defects
    together on a website where you can find them easily", or leave them in
    a darkened basment where the lights are out with "beware of the leapord"
    stuck on the door ;-) Or should I have to service my car at the dealer?

    Some people may chose the dealer ... I'd prefer the website to the
    basement ;-)

    > Anyhow, what exactly are we arguing over?

    Not a lot ;-)

    M.

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