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    SubjectRe: [kbuild-devel] Converting the 2.5 kernel to kbuild 2.5
    On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 15:07, Robert Love wrote:
    > On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 14:50, Edward Muller wrote:
    > > I've put python on my Compaq IPAQ (running linux) and with very few
    > > amounts of tweaks it took up less 1 MB. And that's including gtk
    > > bindings (no tk though) and just about the entire standard python
    > > library. Someone else tried to do this with perl and they couldn't get
    > > it under 3 MB IIRC. And IIRC, the current kernel build system requires
    > > perl (I could be wrong, I'm just a watcher on this list, not a hacker).
    > No, it doesn't require Perl. Its sh along with the standard Linux
    > toolset. xconfig is Tk, but not binded to Perl.
    > Regardless, I don't look at bloat as the issue -- who configures and
    > compiles their kernel on an embedded device? More specifically, it is
    > what the kernel hackers have available and want to use that is the
    > requirement. This is partly why the whole "now your mom can easily
    > configure her kernel" is a bs argument to me. Forget my mom..._I_ want
    > things a certain way. My mom, if I ever forc^H^H^H^H get her to use
    > Linux, will surely use the distro's kernel.
    > Robert Love

    Re: Perl ...My BAD ... I though someone somewhere listed that perl was a
    requirement for building the kernel, but looking at
    Documentation/Changes I see I was wrong. In fact Documentation/Changes
    already lists 10 necessary packages under the "Minimal Requirements"
    section. Anyway ...

    I've been watching the whole CML1 vs. CML2 thing over the past year or
    so and I don't think it's ever been about making it easy for a
    neophite(sp) to configure their kernel. It's been about the fact that
    CML1 is difficult/impossible to maintain in it's current state. I think
    the choice was either to fix CML1 (language and tools) or come up with
    something new. ESR decided to do the later and picked a tool that he
    knew could get the job done. I'd almost bet their wouldn't have been as
    much fuss over it if he had chosen perl, instead of python, but that's
    just me being biased and cynical (Read: Ignore the comment.)

    ESR could have written the CML2 implimentation in assembler, but decided
    against it for various portability, code reuse/understandability,
    simplicity, etc, etc, etc, reasons (I'll let Eric list them all if he

    And .. Re: configuring a kernel on an embedded device... Well a few
    people do actually. :-) I haven't done a lot with my iPAQ recently, but
    there were bunches of people configuring and compiling their kernel's on
    their ipaq (via nfs, IBM udrive, CF card, etc) last time I was heavily
    involved. I was using the iPAQ as a way to illustrate that it's (python)
    not all that big and it can fit on a small, embedded device.

    And I agree, your Mom, my Mom and their friends, when linux comes to
    their computer will use the the kernel that distro X gave them and will
    probably never, ever even worry about it. Unless people like you and me
    go to their house and upgrade it for them. :-)

    Edward Muller
    Director of IS

    973-715-0230 (cell)
    212-487-9064 x115 (NYC)

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