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    SubjectRe: Availability of kdb
    On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Horst von Brand wrote:
    > I've found more bugs by "working half crippled" (as you call it). I do
    > agree with Linus that people who rely mainly on debuggers for finding and
    > fixing bugs are on the whole bad programmers, I've had to deal with more

    I've resisted from participating this thread but as it seems to drag forever,
    what the heck (probably a bad move). Your argument has the flaw that all
    programmers using debuggers are bad programmers, programmers who have
    no self-discipline, no guts to actually find out what was wrong. Just as any
    tool, debuggers can be abused but they should not be condemned on that basis

    On another note, I think even those bad, lazy programmers are intelligent
    enough to find kdb on the net and patch it into their kernels. The mere
    availability of the tools then should be enough for explosion of bad code
    but has this happened? On the other hand, those people who are not
    knowledgeable enough to mess with patches, system administrators or end
    users have no access to the tools when they need it. For example for a
    driver author who is trying to debug a problem he can't reproduce by
    himself, it would be useful to instruct the bug reporter to enter the
    debugger, execute these commands and mail the results back to himself.
    Debugger would simply be a tool to get wider knowledge of the kernel state
    than a simple oops dump.

    Dave Miller explains his methods for finding and fixing bugs in the code
    which seem logical enough but who gets to decide what's enough knowledge of
    the kernel state? Currently it is oops and nothing but the oops. If taken
    to its logical extreme, one could argue that oopses should be removed too.
    Afterall they perform the same function as printing the register
    dump and the stack backtrace in a debugger would.


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