This message generated a parse failure. Raw output follows here. Please use 'back' to navigate. From devnull@lkml.org Fri Apr 26 17:18:27 2024 Received: from spaans.ds9a.nl (adsl-xs4all.ds9a.nl [213.84.159.51]) by kylie.puddingonline.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8HJvsi28078 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:57:58 +0200 Received: (qmail 6556 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2002 19:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO spaans.ds9a.nl) (3ffe:8280:10:360:202:44ff:fe2a:a1dd) by mayo.ipv6.ds9a.nl with SMTP; 17 Sep 2002 19:42:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 9108 invoked by uid 1000); 17 Sep 2002 19:41:13 -0000 MBOX-Line: From linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Sun Sep 10 13:15:17 2000 Received: (maildatabase); juh Received: (qmail 13024 invoked by alias); 10 Sep 2000 13:15:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 13021 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2000 13:15:17 -0000 Received: from vger.kernel.org (199.183.24.194) by spaans.ds9a.nl with SMTP; 10 Sep 2000 13:15:17 -0000 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 09:13:33 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 09:13:12 -0400 Received: from hermes.mixx.net ([212.84.196.2]:43783 "HELO hermes.mixx.net") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 09:13:06 -0400 Received: from mate.bln.innominate.de (cerberus.berlin.innominate.de [212.84.234.251]) by hermes.mixx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2D7F843 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:14:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mate.bln.innominate.de (Postfix, from userid 9) id 3415A2CA6D; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:14:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Daniel Phillips Reply-To: Daniel Phillips X-Newsgroups: innominate.list.linux.kernel Subject: Re: Availability of kdb Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:14:26 +0200 Organization: innominate Lines: 38 Distribution: local Message-Id: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: mate.bln.innominate.de 968591666 7717 10.0.0.90 (10 Sep 2000 13:14:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@innominate.de To: Linus Torvalds X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [de] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0-test6 i586) X-Accept-Language: en To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Linus Torvalds wrote: > > It's not whether you can use tools to do the work. > > It's about what kind of people you get. This makes a lot of sense. Stop there and you are done. But... > ...in the end, maybe the rule to only use hand power makes sense. Not > because hand-power is _better_. But because it brings in the kind of > people who love to work with their hands, who love to _feel_ the wood with > their fingers, and because of that their holes are not always perfectly > aligned, not always at the same place. The kind of carpenter that looks at > the grain of the wood, and allows the grain of the wood to help form the > finished product. This argument would make a lot more sense if we were still building wooden airplanes. But our wooden airplane is already built, and it flys great. Now we are going on to build a metal airplane which we hope will fly higher and faster. Yes, the old tools and techniques still work, but they aren't necessarily well-suited to the task. Arguing that hand tools are somehow better than power tools is... just an argument. It does not matter which kind of tool is better, because both are available. In contrast, the social engineering part does matter - after all, would you want to attract someone to kernel development who refused to use a tool just because it didn't come pre-installed? And look at the quality of the people now working on the kernel - something has been done right.  The result of this thread is that at least one participant (Jeff) has been inspired to build a new-and-better kernel debugger for Linux. If that work comes to fruition (1) I will most happily use it and (2) the discussion was worth it. I don't give a rat's fuzzy behind who won the argument. -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/