Messages in this thread | | | From | "Khimenko Victor" <> | Date | Fri, 18 Feb 2000 18:35:25 +0300 (MSK) | Subject | Re: Of removable devices |
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In <38AD4DA0.401ACBCB@uni-mb.si> David Balazic (david.balazic@uni-mb.si) wrote: DB> Khimenko Victor wrote :
>> In <E12LZ1Z-0002Ou-00@the-village.bc.nu> Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk) wrote: >> >> Eh? If one wants to pull the mounted device in the middle of write and >> >> expects his data alive and well after that - well, he _is_ idiot. If you >> >> want political correctness - please: comprehension-challenged. Better? >> >> > End users don't always get it. They often aren't computing people. If they >> > turn off the TV or pull the plug out of the wall the TV doesnt break. >> >> If will switch gear on full speed improperly (without pressing "unmount" >> button by foot :-) you'll need to repair you car in no time. On most current >> cars there are automatic gear. PC does not have automatic gear for floppies >> yet. Is this explanation too complex for "non-computing people" ? >> >> > You need to think outside the computing mindset - not even neccessarily >> > into brightness either - someone can be very bright and utterly incapable of >> > relating to computers. >> >> Can he/she drive ? >> >> > At the same time - the fix is hardware, the PC isnt fixable for this the >> > CD-ROM drives are. The 2.2.x supermount stuff does that bit right >> >> Exactly. As far as there are no automatic gear for floppies you can not >> avoid manual unmount if you want reliable work.
DB> But you CAN ,as at least AmigaOS proves.
Of course you can. You'll need "just" DEEP rework of VFS as was discussed in depth here. And still it's not a panacea: if you'll pull floppy EXACTLY when write/read process going you can just mechanically break floppy drive (just like plugging/unplugging SCSI or IDE device: probability is of the same order).
DB> If you didn't understand it at first, I'll repeat it : DB> IT CAN BE DONE !!!!!!
I repeat as well: It should be done right or not at all.
>> P.S. BTW ZIP drive HAS needed knobs in place: when I press "Eject" button in >> Windows I get message ON SCREEN "You are trying to eject disk while it's in >> use. Ok, Cancel ?" (translation from Russian). If I press Ok disk is ejected, >> if press Cancel disk will not be ejected. So at least for ZIP drive you can >> implement proper supermount (with small change in kernel and autofs) -- >> hardware supports it.
DB> <teasing> DB> But who gets the dialog ? Which user ? And if nobody is logged in ? DB> </teasing>
Why I need dialog ? In case of linux pressing of eject button can iniciate umount process and then eject. If umount failed I'll not get my zip drive and will find and kill offending process.
DB> I answered ( in short ) these questions in my other post. DB> Anyone using common-sense can answer them , so I will not repeat it DB> here.
And you answer is bad. Here owner of /dev/fd0 is always "root,floppy". Root is VERY rarely loggin in. All trusted users are in "floppy" group. Now: who should get message about wrongly removed floppy ?
P.S. Do not answer: I know that right way is to say daemon somehow that "messages about /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target1/lun0/* should go to /dev/console while messages about /dev/scsi/host0/bus1/target7/lun0/* should go to blah.blah.blah:0.0" or something. That is: you need LOTS of changes in kernel AND you need ifrastructure in user-space. Is it reallyworth it ? God knows. So far I'm see hackish solutions which will punish user when user doing mistakes. Not a way to go IMNSHO. If someone REALLY want this behaviour he should sit and code prototype of all infrastructure. Complete with changes in kernel, daemon is userspace and so on.
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