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    SubjectRe: [Semi-OT,important] ORBS globally blocks users of these lists
    In <> Matthias Andree ( wrote:
    MA> * Khimenko Victor ( [000118 00:51]:
    >> 2. disallow ORBS to probe you and then you eventually can not sent mail to
    >> me (or any other user like l-k ml)
    >> If you do not need to send mail to l-k you are free to block ORBS (or, better
    >> yet just ask ORBS to not probe you: read
    >> If you are not interested in communication with l-k, Cox, Rik and so on you
    >> can block ORBS, ignore ORBS, set up open relay on your host, whatever.

    MA> This is the wrong approach. If ORBS cannot probe me, they cannot decide
    MA> if I am a spam relayer or not.

    ORBS has simple and consistent policy "be probed or be listed". Read the FAQ,

    MA> If they assume all sites they cannot probe are spam relayers, they're
    MA> wrong with certainty.

    Not all sites they cannot probe. Only when there are information that sites
    (or their ISP) are intentionally block ORBS's bots.

    MA> Again, I don't need orbs and I don't want to care for every random
    MA> blacklister that might exist somewhere.

    Let. Me. Repeat. Once. More. As. Far. As. You. Are. Not. Interested. In.
    Sending. Mail. To. Linux-Kernel. Mailing. List. Or. Few. Top. Developers.
    Like. Cox. Or. Rik. You. Can. Do. Anything.

    MA> ORBS must not take action before they have evidence somebody has an open
    MA> relay.

    You are right :-) They are not blacklisting sites just since SMTP connection
    was rejected :-) They ARE blacklisting sites only when it's clear that said
    sites are blocking ORBS's bots. It's done by humans, not by bots and thus it's
    MUCH harder to pull host out of such "manual" blacklist (bot will NOT remove
    you from said blacklist even if you are stopped blocking - human should do this).

    MA> Plus, I've seen so many defective relay probes...

    If you found bug in ORBS's bot then say about it, do not hide it :-) They are
    more then willing to fix bots if they are really broken. BTW ORBS bot will not
    just silently add system to blacklist - it'll send message to postmaster about
    accident with clear explanation of vulnerability and istructions to pull out
    system out of blacklist when vulnerability is closed. Unfortunatelly first
    reaction for decent amount of "sysadmins" on such message is just blocking
    ORBS and sending message to ORBS "I'm not open relay anymore, pull me out of
    you #$@%$ blacklist". So said policy really needed. Sad but true.

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