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SubjectRe: [Semi-OT,important] ORBS globally blocks users of these lists
In <m34scbmodw.fsf@emma1.emma.line.org> Matthias Andree (ma@dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de) wrote:
> "Khimenko Victor" <khim@sch57.msk.ru> writes:

>> ORBS has simple and consistent policy "be probed or be listed". Read the FAQ,
>> pleeease.

> NO, I'm not accepting ORBS as control instance or ruler over mail. This,
> I'm not even reading the FAQ. The correct policy is "spam/relay and be
> listed", not "if you block us we will corrupt your mail". No-one forces
> me to co-operate.

It's your choice :-) You HAVE rights to do it. If you made THAT choice I want
to add you in my blacklist. I can avoid touble though: ORBS already done that
for me :-)

>> Not all sites they cannot probe. Only when there are information that sites
>> (or their ISP) are intentionally block ORBS's bots.

> Do you think I would tell them why I block them?

They not even asking :-) You are blocked them. It's enough.

> I'd just blacklist them myself to get rid of them, without further ado.

Then I (and every other ORBS user including l-k; especially l-k: here ORBS
was added not just since "it's good thing to do" but after some thinking on
subject as Matti Aarnio showed) blacklist you :-) Seems fair to me.

>> MA> ORBS must not take action before they have evidence somebody has an open
>> MA> relay.
>>
>> You are right :-) They are not blacklisting sites just since SMTP
>> connection was rejected :-) They ARE blacklisting sites only when it's
>> clear that said sites are blocking ORBS's bots. It's done by humans,
>> not by bots and thus it's MUCH harder to pull host out of such
>> "manual" blacklist (bot will NOT remove you from said blacklist even
>> if you are stopped blocking - human should do this).

> The entire setup is wrong, and is supported by brain-dead
> administrators.

Perhaps. Blocking will not change that though.

>> So said policy really needed. Sad but true.

> No. The policy is not needed. It is needed that you can track down
> spammers and make them pay, and you can track open relay and have them
> pay as well, since they helped the spammer.

You understood that it's not possible, right ? The only way to make someone
pay here (in Russia) is come to him with big gun - it's almost impossible to
do via court even in FAR more obvious situations. And Russia is not the only
such place in the world.

In ideal world ORBS is not needed and perhaps even amoral. Unfortunatelly we
do not live in ideal world :-(




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