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SubjectRe: vger rejecting messages from mediaone (ORBS is evil)
I'll go with 2)  Probing is always OK (unless it becomes a
denial of service). That's why we have crack, et al.

The web will be a better place if the good guys "check the
doors" extensively. Otherwise, you're relying on a variant
of security by obscurity.

Other possible bumper stickers...

If probing is outlawed, only the outlaws will have probes.

If you don't want probes, keep off the net.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Schwartz" <>
To: "Jeff Millar" <>; "George Bonser"
<>; "Khimenko Victor" <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 8:35 PM
Subject: RE: vger rejecting messages from mediaone (ORBS is evil)

> > A very convincing line of argument, _if_ you assume that a mail
> > probe of a net service constitutes a search. It's closer
> > to looking a public behavior than an invasive search.
> The best analogy I can think of is that it's like twisting and pushing on
> someone's door to see if it's locked. The problem is really that you only
> have three choices:
> 1) A probe for a vulnerability is wrong no matter what. This makes ORBS
> immoral.
> 2) A probe for a vulnerability is okay. This makes probing completely
> justified and makes it very hard to deal with people who probe for
> vulnerabilities in order to exploit them.
> 3) A probe for a vulnerability is okay or not okay depending upon a
> of factors including what the prober did or intended to do with the
> and what the effect of the probe is on the probed site.
> Unfortunately, it pretty much has to be the third option.
> DS

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