Messages in this thread | | | From | "Jeff Merkey" <> | Subject | Re: 20 years without semantic innovation is enough | Date | Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:18:18 -0600 |
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Hans,
You know, I keep hearing all this egotistical hype about originality and open source, but sorry, the open source community has no corner on it. I developed the first S/370 BUS and TAG attached PC Server that ran Netware, I developed the worlds first SMP Network Operating System (Netware SMP). I've got originality gushing out of every orifice of my body and always have, but this doesn't mean that I don't see things clearly. No offense, but you missed the point.
Also, people who truly innovate are routinely HATED and have NO FRIENDS because they are different and they go against the status quo (something I experience every day I get up and go to work). Look at Tesla, Edison, Pastuer, DaVinci. All of these people were hated in their lives and few understood their profound vision or the long term impact they would have on the world.
You should stop hogging the "Open Source Dope Pipe", since it clearly has you seeing "visions" of how open source is going to solve world hunger and global warming. I agree that there are guys with good ideas and an open source effort is one of the many ways to give people a viable outlet for their creativity -- but the models that have evovled for computing are based on more subtle "programs" inside of us, i.e. our DNA.
So where's the neural interface engine for Linux so we don't need keyboards or terminals? How about the telepathic mouse sensor? Perhaps one day, whe these devices show up (due to someone's originality) I could invent a new computer language that uses them. It will only have two commands, "set bugs off" and "do what I'm thinking".
Regards,
Jeff
----- Original Message ----- From: Hans Reiser <reiser@ceic.com> To: Jeff Merkey <jmerkey@timpanogas.com> Cc: Hans Reiser <reiser@ceic.com>; Alexander Viro <viro@math.psu.edu>; David S. Miller <davem@redhat.com>; <pongheng@starnet.gov.sg>; <linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu>; <reiserfs@devlinux.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 6:06 PM Subject: Re: 20 years without semantic innovation is enough
> > I once had an associate explain to me that everything in literature has > already been done. The implication was that originality was not > feasible. He found this comforting. You see, it was sad, he wanted so > much to be a gifted intellectual, and he was indeed quite smart, with an > ability to precisely specify mathematical formalities that was really > quite impressive, yet he had absolutely no spark of originality. He was > the brightest unoriginal person I had ever known, and sadly, being an > academic was actually the worst possible career choice for him. He now > works for a supplier to Microsoft. > > I regret to say that the truth was merely that not everyone has > originality as their gift, not that it had all been done before. New > and original literature occurs frequently. The same in OS design. > Universities come out with new and creative innovations all the time. > > This is the advantage that open source has, that it can tap into this in > a way that is difficult for large corporations that are run by decent > people with stable personalities that do not produce brilliant > innovations. > > Hans > > Jeff Merkey writes: > > > > I heard these same arguments at Novell about OS development and how everyone > > had a new idea on doing it better -- in the end, we discovered that we were > > just re-inventing Unix and MVS. The real question is do things ever really > > change. The answer lies in how HUMANS interact with computers. When this > > changes, it will drive the needs for new and different semantics. Try as > > you may, you will find when you reach the end of your journey of > > exploration, you walked in a circle and are back at the beginning. > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Hans Reiser <reiser@ceic.com> > > To: Alexander Viro <viro@math.psu.edu> > > Cc: Hans Reiser <reiser@ceic.com>; David S. Miller <davem@redhat.com>; > > <pongheng@starnet.gov.sg>; <linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu>; > > <reiserfs@devlinux.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 3:40 PM > > Subject: Re: 20 years without semantic innovation is enough > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alexander Viro writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Hans Reiser wrote: > > > > > > > > > My point though is that the file system semantics have been static > > for > > > > > 20 years. It is time for them to change. When they change NFS will > > > > Could we avoid metaphysics? > > > > > break, at least it will if the changes are substantive. For this > > > > > reason, to argue that NFS cannot be broken is to argue that there > > should > > > > > be no semantic innovation for file systems. That make the argument > > > > > invalid in my eyes. > > > > > > > > > NFS must be broken. > > > > > > > > Not in the kernel that runs here. Period. You break it, your patch is > > not > > > > applied on my boxen. If anything like that will make its way into the > > main > > > > tree (e.g. you'll tie Linus and give him one-way trip) be bloody sure > > that > > > > code split *will* follow. If reiserfs will require kernel changes that > > > > break NFS (I hope it will not) - though luck for reiserfs. Deal with > > it. > > > > NFS sucks in many, many ways. So does SMTP. So does DNS. So does IP. > > > > Unfortunately dropping any of them is not an option, unless you are > > > > willing to move into the brave new world where you can't interoperate > > with > > > > anything except the stuff written by vendor foo. We've been there. SNA > > > > lost. And one personal note - you've made everything to ensure that > > I'll > > > > treat any code from you as potentially maliciuos. Double audit and all > > > > such. Somehow I suspect that I'm not alone in that. After the things > > that > > > > were said I simply don't trust you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear, we've gotten into flames, and I am rather to blame in this. > > > > > > Don't open NFS directories as files, use Stephen's proposed solution. > > > > > > Stephen wrote: > > > > > > > Now, what we _could_ do is to provide a user-space library stub for > > > > other NFS clients which translates O_DIRECTORY() opens to a file into an > > > > open of something like "filename/.%%pseudodir%%", and have an NFS server > > > > which detects that pseudoname and munges it into an O_DIRECTORY open on > > > > the server side. > > > > > > > > See? Suddenly we are able to pass these calls over NFS while still > > > > doing something useful with local filesystem semantics. That's the sort > > > > of thing I would like to see us talking about. Simply dismissing all of > > > > existing practice as irrelevant and broken just doesn't get us any > > > > further, I'm afraid. > > > > > > I like it. Now the only thing I would like more is to stop exchanging > > > flames and write some code. Of course, if I could resist getting in the > > > last word, I might be able to do that....:-) > > > > > > Hans > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > > > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu > > > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > > > >
- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
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