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SubjectRe: iToaster in violation of GPL?
Date

Here we go again!!!!.

It's pretty simple. Even if they are in violation, the only remedies the
copyright holders can get is an order compelling them to publish the code,
and an injunction not to use any GPL code until they do. You cannot even
get monetary damages unless you can make a damages case, which is impossible
if you GPL code (it you've given it away, then it's hard to show how you
were damaged by someone's use of it, because YOU GAVE IT TO THEM). Folks
can argue all they want -- that's it. What Mike is saying is basically
correct -- pressure from the Open Source Community is the best remedy.

Many of these big companies don't want the black eye of being caught doing
this. We are having a similar dispute with Novell. Novell feels like they
can take our NwFs file system for Linux, and do anything they want with it
because we had the misfortune of working for them at some point in the past.
Technically they are correct, except the so called "Border Manager" Novell
has been shipping for the past three years is actually a bastardized hybrid
of the Harvest and Squid Code Bases unde the GPL taken from the public
domain. I was there when they did it, and watched them do it. We have told
Novell that until they provide the source code openly for the Border
Manager, they may not posses any of our GPL code (the GPL does state that if
you violate it, then ALL rights under it are REVOKED for ANY GPL CODE IN
YOUR POSSESSION). If Novell takes our code, we can slap an injunction on
them, and compell them to come into compliance with the GPL. After
confronting them with this, they immediately backed off, claimed they had
"clean roomed" all the code (even though their Brainshare slides admit the
entire "Border Manager" project was built on Squid/Harvest), they put a
lockout on their website preventing internal Novell folks from accessing our
FTP server.

The fear of discovery for these big companies and the possibility that they
might lose the ability to ship something they pinched from us is usually
enough leverage to get most folks going the right way.

Hope this helps with a real world example.

Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: Mike A. Harris <mharris@ican.net>
To: Khimenko Victor <khim@sch57.msk.ru>
Cc: <bentson@grieg.holmsjoen.com>; <linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: iToaster in violation of GPL?


> On Sun, 27 Jun 1999, Khimenko Victor wrote:
>
> >> I'd be inclined to run their code through a disasm...
> >> Perhaps they "let the cat out of the bag" and are trying to cover
> >> themselves now. Didn't the BEOS people steal device driver code
> >> from Linux in the past? And afterwards drop the drivers when
> >> threatened with possible legal action?
> >
> >No, thay published source code. If binary drivers in Linux kernel are
> >not violation of GPL
>
> Binary drivers linked into the kernel *ARE* in violation of the
> GPL. Binary only *MODULES* which *DO NOT* contain *ANY* GPL
> source code whatsoever are ok.
>
> >then driver is not really linked to kernel and so GPL driver
> >for BeOS is not violation of GPL as well...
>
> It is perfectly fine as far as I know for the BEOS people (or
> iToaster people for that matter) to distribute whatever software
> they like as a GPL'd product. If it is indeed GPL, and does not
> violate the GPL in any way whatsoever, then they can do just that
> as long as they distribute the sources.
>
> They can use entire chunks of the kernel, so long as any
> derivative works that they make are ALL distributed under GPL.
>
> They may *NOT* link *ANY* GPL'd code into their proprietary
> closed-source code. This is in violation of GPL.
>
> >P.S. Unfortunatelly we can not do anything till iToaster will be really
> >available...
>
> We can find out the exact facts, and if in fact they are toying
> with the free source community, we can give them some nice
> slashdot articles.
>
> ;o)
>
> --
> Mike A. Harris Linux advocate GNU advocate
> Computer Consultant Open Source advocate
>
> Tea, Earl Grey, Hot...
>
>
> -
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