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SubjectRe: Kernel interface changes (was Re: cdrecord problems on
simply as another data point (and also because i don't know who else from
michigan may be listening in on this thread), i used to work for the
university of michigan. AFS is a pretty big thing there too, and getting
a stable AFS client running on Linux would be important to decision-makers
there (also 32-bit UID support, but that's a whole other bait can).

i know Linus was just picking on AFS as an example, but AFS is one of
those weird support issues -- not many people use it, but those who do,
depend on it for everything.

On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:

> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:51:09 -0500
> From: "Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH" <allbery@kf8nh.apk.net>
> To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>
> Cc: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu
> Subject: Re: Kernel interface changes (was Re: cdrecord problems on
>
> In message <79e5mj$1vv$1@palladium.transmeta.com>, Linus Torvalds writes:
> +-----
> | >>And as a result, I've seen more than a few MIT users decide to give up
> | >>on Linux and move over to NetBSD. I think this is bad, and I'm hoping
> | >>we can take just a little bit more care in the 2.2 series than we did in
> | >>the 2.0 series. Is that really too much to ask?
> |
> | Yes. I think it is. I will strive for binary compatibility for
> | modules, but I _expect_ that it will be broken. It's just too easy to
> | have to make changes that break binary-only modules, and I have too
> | little incentive to try to avoid it.
> +--->8
>
> Linus, even with source (Arla) the module breakage issue is a major problem.
> CMU needs AFS on supported campus machines, not just dorm machines --- and
> the use of 2.1.x / 2.2.x kernels in CMU LCS has been demonstrating on almost
> a daily basis that binary module incompatibility is a serious problem. (Some
> of these machines *cannot* rebuild modules unless AFS is running or a large
> amount of stuff is copied to the local drive. If one of them is the first
> to run a new kernel release, getting Arla running is a major project.)
>
> And Arla, while it's coming along nicely, still has problems. There's a
> current thread about problems with Arla on 2.2.1, and I'm hearing the same
> problems from CMU SCS.
>
> ("Drop AFS"? *Here*? You will be laughed at, and Linux will be dropped.
> Study where AFS came from, and why. Arla's not there yet, neither is Coda,
> and retrofitting either onto all the machines here would be a nearly
> impossible task in any case. Not to mention migrating servers, in the case
> of Coda.)
>
> | As it is, what has AFS done for me lately? Nothing. So why should I
> | care?
> +--->8
>
> What has AFS done for us lately, though? It glues the entire CMU computing
> environment together.
>
> I REPEAT: AFS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE HERE.
>
> We're not all that happy about the situation either, but we aren't in a
> position to do anything about it and won't be for some time. (Why do you
> think Coda exists? But Coda's not yet ready to take over for AFS.) If in
> the meantime Linux continues to be a problem, then it is Linux that will
> have to be dropped.
>
> --
> brandon s. allbery [os/2][linux][solaris][japh] allbery@kf8nh.apk.net
> system administrator [WAY too many hats] allbery@ece.cmu.edu
> carnegie mellon / electrical and computer engineering KF8NH
> We are Linux. Resistance is an indication that you missed the point.
>
> -
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> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>

- Chuck Lever
--
corporate: <chuckl@netscape.com>
personal: <chucklever@netscape.net> or <cel@monkey.org>


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