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    SubjectRe: kill -9 <pid of X>
    On 12 Aug 1998, Linus Torvalds wrote:

    > In article <Pine.HPP.3.91.980811192452.22974F-100000@gaia.ecs.csus.edu>,
    > Jon M. Taylor <taylorj@ecs.csus.edu> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> That's not the kernel's job.
    > >
    > > Whose job is it then? X's? X cannot do the job properly because
    > >it can be killed and leave the hardware in an unknown state.
    >
    > Jon, why do you continue to maintain this, when you have been told that
    > you're wrong?

    I have not.

    > The X server can avoid even kill -9 from a normal user. As it stands,
    > it doesn't do that, and I personally think it's a bug in X.

    I agree.

    > But it's
    > not a kernel problem - X could make sure (by doing a "setuid(0)" to
    > renounce all use privileges) that nobody can kill it but root.
    >
    > (And by the time you have a root that sends it a signal, you have a root
    > that could have killed the machine in easier ways, so don't even bother
    > claiming that it makes any difference).

    But I wasn't trying to kill the machine. I was trying to make the
    X server hang up in a way that is supposed to work correctly.

    > So "that's not the kernel's job" is correct.

    I stand by my claim. If userspace cannot, by its nature, properly
    guarantee the atomicity of those critical sections, video card programming
    cannot be done properly in userspace. Thus, it *is* the kernel's job.

    > As long as you continue to claim this stupid "oh, the X server can't do
    > this, because.." when it's very obvious that the X server _can_ do it,
    > you aren't very believeable.

    Sorry. It cannot "do it" correctly in userspace. I'll buy
    trusting the X server, you convinced me of that. I will NOT buy the X
    server being unable to handle signal 9 correctly.

    Jon

    ---
    'Cloning and the reprogramming of DNA is the first serious step in
    becoming one with God.'
    - Scientist G. Richard Seed


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